Obey? Submit? What do you think??

[sphinxpoet]

Originally posted by Shalom2U:
Could you help me understand what you mean by this statement?

Shalom sphinxpoet~

I remember in the Bible I do not have one in front of me in the Acts of the Apostles one of the apostles made mention to the fact that the marriage was created to that a man could have one woman and a woman could have one man because the Hebrews could not understand it was God's will for us to be committed to the Spirit and not the flesh. In plain english he was saying that we needed marriage to stop having wild sex and to be committed to one person.

Hope it helps

Sphinxpoet
Give me time and tommorow I will look up the verse and Apostle.

[Shalom2U]

Originally posted by sphinxpoet:
I remember in the Bible I do not have one in front of me in the Acts of the Apostles one of the apostles made mention to the fact that the marriage was created to that a man could have one woman and a woman could have one man because the Hebrews could not understand it was God's will for us to be committed to the Spirit and not the flesh. In plain english he was saying that we needed marriage to stop having wild sex and to be committed to one person.
Hope it helps
Sphinxpoet
Give me time and tommorow I will look up the verse and Apostle

I will honor you and give you time...however, I think you are refering to 1Corinthians 7:1-9? If you are, and this is the Book/Chapter/verses, then this decussion is regarding Marriage and Celibacy. *Marriage was looked upon as being a "step down" from celibacy/singleness because one couldn't spend the necessary time becoming whole and holy instruments for the LORD due to the need to nurture and care for his/her spouse. In fact, Paul had to let the people of Corinth know that marriage was not to be viewed as inferior to singleness in any way.

If that wasn't the Book/Chapter/verses, I apologize for posting this response.

Shalom Sphnixpoet~

***That's interesting...how some people look at singleness as being inferior in our day/society...now that's a good topic/thread for discussion***

[VctoriasSecrt]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
VICTORIASECRET:

You seem to be adamant in waging some sort of battle with those who can accept the concept of "biblical" obedience. I detect just a slight bit of bitterness against men (maybe for a valid reason). I find it amusing that it is such a shock to you that women can obey the word of God and find decent men to lead a fruitful life together with. When two people are not looking to find offense all the time or can see the relevance of some tradition in maintaining a happy home, they can indeed be happy.

To suggest that the King James Version has some transliteral errors is not enough to nullify the Truth of the Word. I own several tranlations down to the most exact from the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic versions. While words and phrases are altered and updated, thematically, there is virtually little difference. So, I submit to you, your problem with the Bible and how it relates to women and relationships is that it doesn't jibe with your views of being that stereotypical "strong, independent, Black Woman" who doesn't need a man or relationship to validate her. I think many women have posted that that necessarily isn't the case and that a good man is not the enemy.

...once again...you are off the mark completely...i will just leave it at that...why have you resorted to attacking my personal character when all i have done is speak from a scholarly standpoint...barring PERSONAL opinion...from the standpoint of a male or female...i do pray that one day i am fortunate enough to meet my equal in the form of a man...i'm a undergraduate student two steps out of my mothers womb and too YOUNG...not too independent...to be married...i love men...have no problem with the male presence in the home...nor do i essentially have a problem with using the bible as a GUIDE for life...your remarks indicate that you have a problem with a woman being a valid, authoritative, interpretive source of biblical truths...if i am wrong...correct me...as a women needs to be put in her place...




[This message has been edited by VctoriasSecrt (edited April 25, 2001).]

[sphinxpoet]

Peter's 1st Epistle(sp) chapters 1 to 5. There you will find the answers to many of these debates.

Sphinxpoet

[Shalom2U]

Originally posted by sphinxpoet:
Peter's 1st Epistle(sp) chapters 1 to 5. There you will find the answers to many of these debates.
Sphinxpoet

Thanks Sphinxpoet, 1Peter 3:1 & 3:5 as well as Titus 2:5 were already given as Biblical references and were used in postings (by examples) by Tickledpink, SWEETAKA, Eclipse, toocute and Doggy Style82.

My fine Brotherfriend, I'm waiting on the Book/Chapter/verse you promised me yesterday... .

Shalom Sphinxpoet~

[VctoriasSecrt]

Originally posted by sphinxpoet:
Peter's 1st Epistle(sp) chapters 1 to 5. There you will find the answers to many of these debates.

Sphinxpoet

what is there to debate exactly?...but thanks for the reference...i am sure we could ALL benefit from it somehow...


[This message has been edited by VctoriasSecrt (edited April 25, 2001).]

[sphinxpoet]

Originally posted by Shalom2U:

Thanks Sphinxpoet, 1Peter 3:1 & 3:5 as well as Titus 2:5 were already given as Biblical references and were used in postings (by examples) by Tickledpink, SWEETAKA, Eclipse, toocute and Doggy Style82.

My fine Brotherfriend, I'm waiting on the Book/Chapter/verse you promised me yesterday... .

Shalom Sphinxpoet~

There are too many posts for me to read. Within that text is says a woman be an example to her man on even when he is led astray. This is the reason that the word obey was put in there so that a woman could be an example of how a man should obey the word of the Lord. Throughout the text Peter makes reference to the weakeness of a man in flesh. The instution of marriage was created to counteract these(as per my interpatation of the text).

I will be back with more information - Sphinxpoet
*Grabbing my bible - Glad I did not major in Divinity Studies*

Shalom

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by VctoriasSecrt:
...once again...you are off the mark completely...i will just leave it at that...why have you resorted to attacking my personal character when all i have done is speak from a scholarly standpoint. your remarks indicate that you have a problem with a woman being a valid, authoritative, interpretive source of biblical truths...if i am wrong...correct me...as a women needs to be put in her place...

Sorry if you read it that way, but I did not attack your personal character in any way. I also do not have a problem with a woman being a valid, authoritative, interpretive source of Biblical truths (is this what you claim to be?) I have pointed out how Shalom and others have correctly interpreted the passage. My only problem is with ANYONE, male or female, who redefines the Bible to fit their individual political goals. In this way, they become their own personal god and relegate The Word to secondary status to their secular humanism.

I will correct you on this also. I never even intimated that a woman needs to be "put or kept in her place". The question revolved around the accurate rendering of a theological question. You view my posts in a classic feminist defensive posture. Because I disagree does not make it a personal attack. Because I disagree does not mean that I want to disenfranchise women. Because I point out how you would like to re-word phrases of the bible that offend your feminist sensibilities does not mean that women are incapable of interpreting the Bible correctly.

Lastly, I would not attack you personally over minor philosophical disagreements. It aint that deep. Peace.

[The Original Ape]

I think the world is in trouble because people DON'T know their vows, let alone keep them. As for submitting, that's a personal thing. Some people(men included) say they wont submit in order to save face; but privately they do-and for good reason. The person that submits believes in the judgement of their spouse, and thus submits. Because it's not popular doesn't mean it's not right. If it was all that bad a concept, why then are the divorce rates higher today than in the past?

[VctoriasSecrt]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
Sorry if you read it that way, but I did not attack your personal character in any way. I also do not have a problem with a woman being a valid, authoritative, interpretive source of Biblical truths (is this what you claim to be?) I have pointed out how Shalom and others have correctly interpreted the passage. My only problem is with ANYONE, male or female, who redefines the Bible to fit their individual political goals. In this way, they become their own personal god and relegate The Word to secondary status to their secular humanism.

I will correct you on this also. I never even intimated that a woman needs to be "put or kept in her place". The question revolved around the accurate rendering of a theological question. You view my posts in a classic feminist defensive posture. Because I disagree does not make it a personal attack. Because I disagree does not mean that I want to disenfranchise women. Because I point out how you would like to re-word phrases of the bible that offend your feminist sensibilities does not mean that women are incapable of interpreting the Bible correctly.

Lastly, I would not attack you personally over minor philosophical disagreements. It aint that deep. Peace.

why does a man label a woman feminist when her views are contrary to his?...hmmmmn...political agendas...that is really a bit deep since the subject is about whether or not to keep "obey" in the marriage vows...i will let this rest...we are at an impass...

[Salience]

What is a classic feminist? I can't figure out what he's trying to say, but it did sound like an epithet to me.

I would simply use Hopeful's method to resolve the wedding vows issue. We are to submit ourselves to each other. So, we can both obey God and each other.

[tickledpink]

Originally posted by Shalom2U:

... Yes, there has been a few times where brotha-man with his big ol'man self went and made a decision that not only had negative effects, but the reprecussion (sp) and residue from his decision seem to last forever and ever and ever (and no amen)---did I keep quiet---HECK NO, but after throwing it up in his face and running it in the ground, the LORD reminded me to stop the nagging, get behind him and hold the brotha-man up!...

Shalom, I love to read your posts. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by tickledpink:
Shalom, I love to read your posts. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I wholeheartedly agree. While I am not even in a relationship with another man, your posts and experiences in marriage have been such a blessing to my spirit. Lately I have strayed in my walk with God but your posts have been uplifting and when you said that you prayed for us, it really brings tears to my eyes. I thank God for you as a person and as a Child of God.

[Shalom2U]

tickledpink & CrimsonTide4,

While it would seem appropriate to say "Thank you", I can not because I need to be thanking BOTH of your Fine, Wonderful Organizations for allowing a sisterfriend as myself to come here, post as I do, be treated not only with respect, but be given love that I can't express because a lot of folks would think I've gone NUTS if I said the LORD has blessed me with a family that I can't see or touch directly...A family that encourages me, allows me to say some DUM stuff (I know I'm not like AKATUDE or MaMaBuddha when it comes to having a witty personality)...but you all let me try, and no one here has EVER said, "Oh there go that JESUS-FREAK Shalom2U with all her self-righteous mumbo-jumbo"...instead, I've only been given the utmost respect that a non-BGLO person could receive!

I am the BLESSED ONE! I have a Cyber-family of sistahs who are Movers and Shakers, Trailblazers, Uplifters, Community Servers...just simple put...the BEST that GOD has created! (And they don't mind telling folks like it T-I-is).

No, I thank you for blessing me!

Shalom Everybody~

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by Shalom2U:
tickledpink & CrimsonTide4,

"Oh there go that JESUS-FREAK Shalom2U with all her self-righteous mumbo-jumbo"...instead, I've only been given the utmost respect that a non-BGLO person could receive!

SF, Shalom2U...
I don't think ANYONE, would say that...for fear of having lightning to "STRIKE THEM"....LOL

Seriously,
I don't think you are a "Jesus-Freak" at all! I'm a Jesus-Freak, but we (you and I ) are not on that same Jesus-Freak level....One day, HOPEFULLY, I will be closer than I am now....

I think you bring a certain calmness in the midst of the storm...you know it can get rocky, up in here, up in here...So, it's good to have that balance when we NEED IT.

Merci Beaucoup!