Obey? Submit? What do you think??

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91:
SF, Shalom2U...

I think you bring a certain calmness in the midst of the storm...you know it can get rocky, up in here, up in here...So, it's good to have that balance when we NEED IT.

Merci Beaucoup!

Is this going to turn into an "I love Shalom" thread? Do I need to start another one?? *smile* I was just reading another one of your posts and you could literally FEEL the love of God oozing out of your words so I had to come and give my 2 cents here. Thank you for the peace/Shalom that you bring to this site!! Love ya!

[Shalom2U]

Originally posted by VctoriasSecrt:
i luv shalom...i luv shalom...i luv shalom...break break break it down...

Uh, uh,....I'm not into all that Camp-fire, group-huggie stuff SO BACK THE HELL UP! (That's for all the folks who think I'm so sugary sweet). ***Ya'll ruining my Mean Image...I'm leaving GC until I know it's safe to come back in and get my butt kicked just like everybody else!

No, seriously...all phoney Shalom2U jokes aside, I LOVE YOU ALL and I BLESS MY LORD FOR MAKING MENTION OF EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU...Ya'll some ANNOITED Women of GOD up in here...Look at our JESUS! (now you know the enemy gonna try to drop some drama in here because too many of us are being blessed by one another...Ideal08, Discogoddes, Eclipse, CrimsonTide4, tickledpink, AKAMonet, you know you've been lifting sisters up lately...don't be taken off guard if he, (the enemy), tries to come in with some mess at work or home. Just remember this, the same GOD who you speak of to encourage us, will be the SAME GOD to see you through)!

Shalom Everybody~

***Oh, a disclaimer, "hell" is not a word of profanity. It is a place of eternal destiny for satan and his cohorts...just want to clarify as not to cause anyone to stumble because of my usage of the word.

[The Original Ape]

I agree with my bruh dirtymike1906!!!!!!!

[dirtymike1906]

I agree with the majority of responses--that the man should be head of household, but in no way some sort of dictator over the wife. The union should be a partnership of best friends. What I am worried about, however, is that the concept of marriage seems to be growing obsolete. I don't know about everyone else, but most of my friends have been abandoned and devastated by the so-called best friend they intended to spend the rest of their life with and help raise their children. Seemingly, more and more, everybody has been reduced to somebody's "Baby's Mama" or "Baby's Daddy" among a smorgasbord of half and step-children with a wide variety of last names. Everyone seems disposable now because they left hair in the sink yesterday morning or forgot to take the trash out last night. Is anybody happily married?

[CrimsonTide4]

ttt for SummerChild and others who want to read. I learned a lot from it almost 3 years ago when the discussion first began.

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
ttt for SummerChild and others who want to read. I learned a lot from it almost 3 years ago when the discussion first began.

See CT4, This is just another example of our bomb-diggity Moderators!!! Thank you!
SC

[Honeykiss1974]

Thanks CT4 for digging this up. I don't think I've seen this thread before myself.

But SummerChild, I did want to answer your question from the other thread, so ere is the Cliffnote version since much of the detail is already presented here.

The wife should "submit" unto the husband. Is that a bad thing? No, because God commands the husband to love and treat his wife just as Christ loves and treats the church (us).

If the husband has the "heart of Christ" he would do NOTHING intentionlly to his wife that would cause her harm, pain, heartache, or strife (just as Christ does nothing to INTENTIONALLY bring us harm or to see us hurt). The husband would love his wife unconditionally (just as Christ loves us unconditionally).

This is why God stresses that we (husband and wife) should be "equally yoked".

I hope this helps...

[RBL]

Just to weigh in.. most people don't like to submit but in life we submit all the time be it on your job, the law, to your children. It seems like when it is a significant other it becomes a problem. A key aspect of submission is faith. I believe most people lack faith which is why most have a problem with submission(be it a man or woman)

[Love_Spell_6]

I didnt read the entire thread,..but I'm in the posting mood tonight so here's my 6 cents

Yes i do think wives should submit to the husbands...HOWEVER i believe this only applies in a Christian marriage....I mean if the husband doesn't believe in the Bible...but knows the scripture about submission backward and forward...I'd have a problem with that...but then again...I wouldn't be marrying him anyway...

It actually bugs me when so-called independent women who may or may not make more $$ than there husbands try to run the household and make all the decisions.....gotta let a man be a man.... (but we all know who really running the show )

[aephi alum]

Interesting thread.

I am Jewish, as is my husband. There's nothing in the Jewish wedding ceremony that makes a wife promise to obey her husband. (And anyone who knows a Jewish woman knows we don't obey our husbands! )

I believe that two people who choose to become a family unit should be equal in all things and should share the responsibilities of "head of household" equally. Marriage is about partnership, not who's submitting to whom.

A marriage consists of a master, a mistress, and two slaves... making, in all, two.

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
Thanks CT4 for digging this up. I don't think I've seen this thread before myself.

But SummerChild, I did want to answer your question from the other thread, so ere is the Cliffnote version since much of the detail is already presented here.

The wife should "submit" unto the husband. Is that a bad thing? No, because God commands the husband to love and treat his wife just as Christ loves and treats the church (us).

If the husband has the "heart of Christ" he would do NOTHING intentionlly to his wife that would cause her harm, pain, heartache, or strife (just as Christ does nothing to INTENTIONALLY bring us harm or to see us hurt). The husband would love his wife unconditionally (just as Christ loves us unconditionally).

This is why God stresses that we (husband and wife) should be "equally yoked".

I hope this helps...

Thanks for the reply HK and I've seen this reasoning before.

Here's the reason that it doesn't make sense to me: EVEN IF your husband is going to treat you like fine wine (or presumably better according to this verse) why does that it make it reasonable that you should want to SUBMIT to him?

For instance, you and I are both equals, yet, even if you treated me perfectly, I would still not want to submit to you. Just b/c it is submission. It implies inferiority to me. That's the problem that I have with the submission issue. I just don't think that I'm inferior to a man.

SC

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by RBL
Just to weigh in.. most people don't like to submit but in life we submit all the time be it on your job, the law, to your children. It seems like when it is a significant other it becomes a problem. A key aspect of submission is faith. I believe most people lack faith which is why most have a problem with submission(be it a man or woman)

I hear what you are saying RBL and I would pose this question: so why not have the person who knows the most on any particular issue (whether it is the man OR the woman) do the submitting? It's peculiar to me that submission w/in a marriage only goes one way. What would be so wrong with the man submitting to the woman sometimes. Sometimes we know best and sometimes the man knows best.

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6


It actually bugs me when so-called independent women who may or may not make more $$ than there husbands try to run the household and make all the decisions.....gotta let a man be a man.... (but we all know who really running the show )

See LoveSpell, this is what I don't understand. What does appearing to "run the household" have to do with a man being a man? In my mind, being a man includes the qualities of humility and wisdom. If my man is wise and he recognizes that I should be running the show on matter x and he is humble enough to admit this to himself and me, then he is a man. To me, a man is not one who must be made to *feel* as if he is in charge if/when he really is not. It's my opinion, that a man is not one to put his ego into play like that.

SC

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by aephi alum


I believe that two people who choose to become a family unit should be equal in all things and should share the responsibilities of "head of household" equally. Marriage is about partnership, not who's submitting to whom.

Aephi Alum, this is pretty much my point of view as well. Marriage is about partnership, not submission.

I know that there will be those who say that not both parties can be equal all the time. This is exactly my point from my other thread: if you are more wise or learned or feel especially stronger about something than your partner than I would say that you are the dominant figure for *that* transaction or issue. Thus, no you are not *always* equal in every certain thing but, in my opinion, that equality would change based on the facts in place, not based on who happens to be the man.

SC

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by SummerChild
See LoveSpell, this is what I don't understand. What does appearing to "run the household" have to do with a man being a man? In my mind, being a man includes the qualities of humility and wisdom. If my man is wise and he recognizes that I should be running the show on matter x and he is humble enough to admit this to himself and me, then he is a man. To me, a man is not one who must be made to *feel* as if he is in charge if/when he really is not. It's my opinion, that a man is not one to put his ego into play like that.

SC

I just believe the man is supposed to be the head of the household....and actually...I'm not going to fight to over take that responsibility. Its not an easy job... I will give my opinion...and he will take that into account....but in the end its his decision...if its right its right if its wrong its wrong..... but if he makes a decision I dont agree with...I think its my duty to support him and help him see things from a different perspective...not say oh i can do it better. I just think its out of order for a woman to be running the show.... The wife has enough responsibilities....Its more important to me to make sure my family has dinners together every night and prays together....than to try to be in control all the time..

But again...I am a bit traditional....and I really do not expect anyone on this board to agree with me....I am a traditional thinker amongst a lot of so called "independent" women....so I know my thoughts are a bit "out there" to some...