Cutting Legacies

[shadokat]

When you have a daughter going through recruitment at a school where you have a chapter, you may be more able to understand the alum's anguish over having her daughter not chosen to be a part of her sorority. While her actions were rash, she IS entitled to respond. I'd like to know why she was cut.

as fire1977 said earlier, D Phi E has a strict legacy policy which states that you may not cut a legacy without legitimate reason (bad dress, nerdy, bad shoes are not legit). And I think I like our policy as it is. Alumnae are an important part of sorority life, and deserve an explanation from someone as to why their daughter was cut...especially a large donor.

[imsohappythatiama]

Membership selection is a shared responsibility of all members--both active and alumna. Of course an alumna whose daughter has been released has the right to respond--but she doesn't have the right to ruin her daughter's potential happiness in pledging another sorority.

It's a good thing that you are happy with DPhiE policy, as I am happy with Kappa's policy on legacies and on the respective roles of actives and alumnae.

According to KKG Fraternity Policies, "Active members have the responsibility for selecting members of their choice; alumna members have the privilege of providing reference information on qualified young women."

This is one reason why it's great that each of the 26 members of NPC get to set their own rules with regard to membership and legacies...because I would not want Kappa actives to be "forced" to take legacies and to go to the lengths that one poster described as "purposely incurring recruitment infractions to get the girl to drop."

I am proud that Kappa believes in the integrity and character of its actives enough to trust that they can determine who is best suited to share the next 4 years with them....and that chapter advisers can help guide them to see what has helped Kappa to endure for the last 133 years...and what will help it endure for the next century (at least!).

And when/if I do have a daughter who goes through recruitment, I will remember to keep my mouth shut about what she is/is not entitled to from Kappa, and I will (though it may kill me) be fair enough to HER to make sure she knows that I will be equally happy no matter what sorority she pledges--or whether she pledges no sorority at all.

And may the Lord strike me down if I reverse myself, should Kappa ever release a daughter of mine, I will never make such an a$$ of myself as to demand an explanation about what happened
in the process of recruitment. I will trust my daughter and my SISTERS enough to know that in the end, it wasn't meant to be.

[White_Chocolate]

this is almost disturbing but weird too

we had a girl come through *my little*. she was a legacy of another sorority on campus(her mom, sister, and 3 cousins). she purposely didn't say anything but she let her mom and another alum write her a rec for the sorority. she wanted to see for herself.
well, she went to recruitment events for both of our groups. she decided that she didnt like them because they had changed from what her mom told them. however, she had to break it to her mom. she made up the excuse that the sorority was taking too long to give her a bid. even though, she received both of ours at the same time. she just didn't like the girls' behavior.
her mom called and ripped the sorority for 'slowing around' and having her daughter join another sorority. her sister ripped the sorority and wrote their advisor.

months have passed. her mom is like our long lost sister. it took a while for her to accept my little's decision. however, once she found out what her sorority had evolved into, she was grateful that her daughter chose us. however, she is torn once again because my little's baby sister is going through rush this fall. and she wants someone to join her sorority. but all of this sister's friends are members of a totally different sorority. and she plans on being in with them. oh, well.

[MSKKG]

While helping with recruitment at USC, I've seen PNMs purposely omit legacy or "connection" info from their applications. I guess they thought they would have a fairer recruitment if there were no affiliations listed. This would work for the other groups not involved, but we knew one particular PNM was a Kappa legacy. I truly can't remember what happened, but I guess everything worked out for the best.

Kappa Kappa Gamma loves her legacies as much as any other GLO--what a thrill it is to know that bond is shared with a family member--but I agree with imsohappythatiama. It's a touchy situation from both ends. The legacy wants to be wanted for herself, not her connection. The alums want their legacies to be given careful consideration no matter the outcome. God knew what he was doing when he gave me two boys--I don't think I could handle the anticipation of watching my daughter rush!

Wouldn't you rather have an enthusiastic member than a lukewarm legacy? If the legacy would be truly happier as a member of another GLO, she should not be "forced" to pledge for anyone else; however, some PNMs go into recruitment adamantly refusing to pledge where they are legacies. That being said, if the choice is between a GLO where you are a legacy and another GLO (all things being equal), why not keep the legacy alive?

[anothermom]

I rarely post my 2 cents worth but....... as a mom who received that phone call saying that my daughter was being released from my sorority, I must say that it is a devastating experience. My daughter joined another group during spring rush that year and is thrilled with her choice but it is a tough pill to swallow at the time. Most parents will lighten up if their child is happy - that's all we really want anyway. I would love to share my sorority life with my daughter but she has to be able to do whatever she wants as well. I have two more daughters and I don't know how I'll live through two more recruitments! As for the phone call, I was told that my daughter was being released. Of course, my first response was to say "Why?????" Obviously, they can't really answer that question except to say that the girls just didn't feel that she was a "fit". That means nothing to a mom who believes that her daughter is perfect and would fit in anywhere (as I'm sure most mom's believe!) For that reason, the phone call is kind of a waste. However, it allowed me to warn my daughter before she picked up her Pref invites the next day and didn't see my sorority there. I think that we have to be patient with girls AND their moms. It takes a while to get over this but it will eventually happen. My daughter attends my university and she now has a new sister whose mom was my sorority sister! We're just starting over with a new generation.

[shadokat]

anothermom--

Your story breaks my heart, but I'm so glad she ended up with a sorority that she is happy with.

imsohappy, I in no way was attacking the Kappa legacy policy. We're all different organizations, and thus, have different policies. I like that we notify mothers/grandmothers if their legacy is going to get cut and make active members provide the HQs with a valid reason. Also, we are fully trusting in our active members choosing their new members, but most sororities are required to give a legacy at least a second look. To say our policy says that we aren't is ludicrous.

I think that unless you've had to be the mother that hears her daughter will be cut or the person who has had to call that mother, this is a difficult situation to sympathize with.

[imsohappythatiama]

shadokat, I see your point.

One of the reasons I like Kappa's policy so much is that it hasn't always been that way....as a Recruitment Adviser I used to have to make those calls ALL THE TIME--to mothers, grandmothers, aunts, sisters--and each time, it broke my heart to have to do so (especially when I really liked the legacy in question, but the chapter decided otherwise).

I guess my point is that in my years of having to make those calls, I was always struck by the way in which different women handled the news.

I always expected a bit of sadness (tears were not uncommon), anger (I've had more than my share of expletives launched at me), and bitterness. I guess my issue has always been that so often I was treated...how shall I say without going into detail...un-sisterly. And I bet this happens in all of the 26 NPC sororities, too, as I have heard the same "war stories" from friends in other orgs. who are long-time Recruitment Advisors like myself.

While I always tried to afford the women on the other end of the line a great deal of latitude, I was always amazed at some of the "crazy" responses I got from women who just days before were sending me the kindest, warmest notes about their daughter and their own lifelong dedication to Kappa. Some women seem to think that chapters are "out to cut legacies"--when nothing could be further from the truth.

I stand by Kappa's decision to keep a PNM's recruitment outcome private (whether she is a legacy or not)...but I can see why other orgs would want to let a legacy's family in on the decision.

I guess my main caveat is this: if you're that mother or sister or aunt who receives a phone call--whether from a chapter or from your PNM--that tells you your girl didn't get your org, just try to be as civil as you can about it, even if you are (understandably) devastated. To the PNM who calls, you are setting the tone for how she will see the Greek world from now on. And to the sister/alumna who is calling, you are setting an example of how members of your sisterhood are supposed to treat each other.

[carnation]

Originally posted by shadokat


I think that unless you've had to be the mother that hears her daughter will be cut or the person who has had to call that mother, this is a difficult situation to sympathize with.

When I was an active and a young alum, it never occurred to me--or, I think now, my sisters--to worry much about the effect of cutting legacies on the PNMs and their moms. They'd find another home, right? They'd get over it, right?

Then as I got older and friends' daughters rushed--and usually got cut by their legacy sororities since most went to UGa--I witnessed firsthand the devastation of moms and daughters. When that daughter you've shown your pin to, introduced your sisters to, sung sorority lullabies to...is rejected by your very own sorority, it has to feel like a knife thrust to the heart.

We can call it what we want, but it's rejection. We can dress it up with phrases like "she'll find a better sorority home" or "she just wasn't a good fit" but face it, it's rejection.

Two of my daughters have pledged 2 different sororities, seven more will rush someday. If any are ever cut by Pi Phi, I know that even if they find another sorority home--even if I hear that there were far more legacies than places for PNMs---it will be a low and horrible blow.

Very often, your feelings in your twenties are vastly different from your feelings after forty.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by carnation
When that daughter you've shown your pin to, introduced your sisters to, sung sorority lullabies to...is rejected by your very own sorority, it has to feel like a knife thrust to the heart.

I agree with Carnation; having your children hurt is 1,000,000 times worse than you, yourself, being hurt.

My younger sister went to Cornell, which doesn't have an active DZ chapter. It wasn't until after she'd graduated that she finally told me that she'd been *relieved* that there was no DZ chapter there because she would have felt a lot of pressure to go there since I had been "Miss DZ Cheerleader" when I was in college. (she exaggerated!)

As for me, I'm just happy she found a home she loved just as I'll be happy for my daughters no matter where they end up!

[carnation]

Originally posted by HotDamnImAPhiMu
Okay. Two thoughts:

1) Does it not seem to anyone else like Southern Belle has it out for whichever sorority the story is about? Their girls stink, the mother isn't loyal, the current collegiate members cut the legacy out of sheer meanness, etc., etc., etc.

Yeah, it's probably ole Blue Violet again--making up a story about some nonexistent group.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
My younger sister went to Cornell, which doesn't have an active DZ chapter. It wasn't until after she'd graduated that she finally told me that she'd been *relieved* that there was no DZ chapter there because she would have felt a lot of pressure to go there since I had been "Miss DZ Cheerleader" when I was in college. (she exaggerated!)

Maybe this would be more appropriate as a PM, but what was your sister at Cornell? I spent time on a Cornell exchange, and my roommate, along with about 10 other women, were members of different houses there. The system there seems to be a very strong one.

[bruinaphi]

Exlurker, most campuses have a rule in the Panhellenic Recruitment Rules that all chapters must include everyone who attends preference (or even invited to pref on some campuses) on their bid list. If the campus doesn't have that rule I would assume that the chapter could get permission from their org to not put the PNM on their list, but if the campus does have that rule I would assume they would have to get permission from their org and talk to the Greek Advisor about the best way to proceed under the Panhellenic rules.

[FuzzieAlum]

Our rules do say that you have to put her on our bid list, but ... depending on the seriousness, there would probably be some way around it. If a PNM started shooting at people during pref, I don't think FHQ would insist we give her a bid, no matter what the rules are!

[sorority belle]

I'll be completely honest.

My story is NOT made up. And I am not out to "Hurt' the sorority I described, that's why I didn't name the organization.

The story I described on the first page is my story.

I was a triple legacy to an organization and cut during recruitment. A lot of my friends are in this organization. I had a great time while I was there (We don't live together, so in their designated "room" on campus for recruitment) and I really wanted to be there--not simply b/c of my family's involvement with the group.

My mother never stressed that I be in the group, in fact she told me to go where I wanted to be "happy" however I honestly thought this place was the place for me.

As carnation said, the entire process has incredibly hurt my mother. And it has hurt me. Sure, I am now in a different sorority (just FYI this organization was the only sorority that cut me--i.e. i got invited back to every other greek group on campus that i preffed high enough to return, i.e. we can only return to 5, for ex.) and I am in some ways happy where I ended up. But I will always long to have been in their sorority.

I began this thread with anonymity, because I was scared to simply give you "my side" of the story. I was sure people would tell me that "that's life, you're never guranteed just b/c you're a legacy, blah blah blah" and I can't handle being berrated any more.

When I see my friends wearing my mom's, grandmother's, and aunt's letters and how happy they are, I am incredibly saddenned. I was raised around the wonderful people of this sorority (from my mother's sorority sisters, to my aunt's, to even my grandmother's) and was so undoubtedly excited about how much fun they seemed when I rushed them.

I guess I will never know what happenned.

-SB

[ToBeSororityGrl]

I'm sorry if this may come off rude, but get over it! You pledged another sorority and unless you have not been initiated then maybe you should depledge but if you have it really makes me wonder. You should be happy where you are and so forth and if not I really question why you're still in the organization