Panhellenic Expansion at Clemson Voted Down - Page 2

DGMarie · #16 02-19-2003, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownEyedGirl
Our smallest chapter will be returning with just 40 sisters in the fall and took 9 new members in formal fall recruitment, so COB'ing for some chapters would need to be a concentrated Panhellenic effort to increase the strength of our entire Greek system.

9 when quota was 48? Well, I don't have a solution but I think maybe this needs higher ups to fix. With that kind of disparity there are obviously bigger issues at hand. I hope all works out amicably for everyone involved.

Aphigal · #17 02-19-2003, 11:51 PM

I just want to say that I am sorry your Panhellenic system is in such a state right now.

I do believe there is an answer in order to help the system. Hopefully by working together the groups can come up with a solution!

33girl · #18 02-20-2003, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownEyedGirl
look at numbers after fall recruitment, and then allow any chapter to COB to either chapter total or chapter average with a 365 day window of opportunity. In one calendar year, if all sororities are not at chapter total, expansion will automatically be pursued as each chapter has been given a twelve month opportunity to expand.

Don't you already allow this? The point of COB is that it is, well, continuous. If a chapter is under total they should be allowed to give an open bid at any time, unless there is a colony on campus (and sometimes even then). It's kinda like she is saying "well, you have a year to get your act together, if you don't tough toenails." It's all well to say you had a year of "opportunity" but as Marie said, it sounds liike there are other issues that can't be solved just by telling the smaller chapters to COB.

shadokat · #19 02-20-2003, 12:38 PM

33girl--

While I see your point on the "tough toenails", I think it's ridiculous for a chapter with such issues that they would only get 9 women when quota is 48 and only has 40 women coming back when average chapter size is 148 to hold back the Greek System from expanding. I realize Panhellenic spirit and all that jazz, but at some point, if one chapter hindering the system from growing, and the chapter is not doing anything to improve, then you gotta give them a limit on time. This worked out very well at another school I know of, and the group that was very low ended up working their asses off, along with alumnae support, in getting their shit together and are now 3rd largest of 10.

aopinthesky · #20 02-20-2003, 12:40 PM

Most certainly, if you bring another sorority to campus under your present circumstances, you will force the smallest of your groups to close. Obviously if that smallest group could get to chapter total by COB they would have already done that. Granted, that in itself is a problem and perhaps it is not unreasonable to say "you have a year to get things straightened out and then we are going ahead with expansion".
I don't see how one new sorority on campus is going to do much to help your larger groups downsize, which seems to be one of the goals. If that truly is what you want, why would the larger groups be opposed to some sort of "cap" on chapter total? I believe you are correct, that all groups have the RIGHT to take quota regardless of how many member they have, but you have said that the large groups feel they are too large and want another sorority on campus so that quota will not be as high (or did I misread this?)
Finally, all of your sororities need to remember that when one group falls, someone takes their place on the bottom. That is why it is so important to take care of each other and do everything that you can to ensure the success of your Panhellenic as a whole.

Aphigal · #21 02-20-2003, 12:41 PM

I think what she's saying (and correct me if I am wrong BrownEyedGirl) is that this would sort of be the official "one year to go" notice. That Panhel agrees that expansion is the right route but wants to give the smallest chapter every opportunity to get to total or even average chapter size.

As far as limiting quota additions, I think this idea may not be in the best interest of the potential new member. Quota additions are often viewed as a way for groups to get more new members when in fact they are a way for new members who maximized every option they had (attended all parties, put down all choices on her pref car, did not SIP (aka suicide) and still did not match to be placed.

33girl · #22 02-20-2003, 01:20 PM

shadokat - I understand what you are saying and agree, but apparently there are 3 other chapters that aren't for expansion either, not just the smallest chapter. My point is it's somewhat disingenous to say "do what you are already doing and what's in the Green Book" and act like it's a new tack to take, which is what it sounded like from browneyedgirl's recap.

Honestly, I think if the smallest group's nationals just stepped up and assured them they weren't going to get closed, this would pass 10-0 and no one would give a shit.

GPhiBLtColonel · #23 02-20-2003, 11:29 PM

...the smallest chapter at Clemson is DG and their nationals DID step in to help them...last year or last semester I believe -- which is what is being done with the DG chapter at USC (the one in South Carolina!) I am not sure what else can really be done...I would guess that the other three that also voted against expansion may have done so -- at least partly - out of fear -- raised in a previous post - that if the smallest chapter is de-activated then they might be the next one to occupy the celllar....

I hate it when things like this happen

Floridagirl · #24 02-20-2003, 11:58 PM

Unfortunately when a group gets so small that it can not survive financially, recruitment to ceiling is almost impossible. Whether the campus expands or not, this group needs a very large group of friends to join together to change the dynamics. The very small groups who are struggling terribly will not benefit from any new rules.

33girl · #25 02-21-2003, 01:38 AM

GPhiBLtCol -

there's a BIG difference between the national stepping in to help, and having them assure you that your head is not going to be on the chopping block 6 months forthwith. I have no idea what was said or not at Clemson so I won't speculate.

browneyedgirl - do you have houses there or dorm suites or what?

bruinaphi · #26 02-21-2003, 05:50 AM

I believe they have dorm floors or suites.

My own personal belief is that expansion may have been voted down out of a lack of understanding by the collegiates of how to make the situation work moving forward. They may look at the smallest group and their friends who are in it and not want to hurtn them, without understanding how to help them either. I've faced several situations with different campuses where collegiates vote one way or another based on a lack of education or information.

aopinthesky · #27 02-21-2003, 10:27 AM

>>>I think if the smallest group's nationals just stepped up and assured them they weren't going to get closed<<<

How can anyone assure them of that? It sounds like they are on the downslide as it is. Bringing another sorority to campus may very well seal their fate. If they are only getting 9 when quota is 40 plus, time is just not on their side. Should this hold back expansion on campus if it is needed? I don't know the answer to that.

33girl · #28 02-21-2003, 12:10 PM

My comment about assuring them they wouldn't close them was partially based on housing. It is one thing if you have a huge house to fill and maintain utilities in and quite another to have a hall. (i.e. I would think you could "step back" more easily from a hall if need be, rather than having to close the chapter simply because you can't fill and maintain the house.)

Maybe the collegians are making the wrong choice...maybe they are absolutely right. But the point is it is THEIR choice and time will tell. You have to have opportunities to get involved in big issues to learn. Giving college women the chance to make those choices is a big part of what Greek life is all about.

pialpha92 · #29 02-21-2003, 04:50 PM

Are all chapters not getting quota during formal rush or just the smallest one? Many years, including this one, we have a couple chapters not get quota (out of 6). My campus has also always seemed to be cyclical with chapters of fewer members years ago now among the largest and vice versa - is that happening here?

As an alum of a chapter who is 'smaller' I do take offense to the comments that those groups are somehow not good enough to be greek. Sure there may be problems but the largest groups have always had as many or more problems, just in different areas. And I agree that asking that group to double in that amount of time will be a tough task - I've done it, believe me I know

Luckily there is equity in housing with this situation so that isn't the issue - I would suggest if other sororities really want to help the situation to step forward and offer help directly to the chapter. Whether with joint workshops or helping them advertise their COR events, even the smallest bit of help will make their task a bit easier. They most certainly feel the pressure of their situation and would likely welcome the support from their greek sisters.

Good Luck and try not to let it divide Panhellenic

Dori

aopinthesky · #30 02-21-2003, 05:34 PM

>>>As an alum of a chapter who is 'smaller' I do take offense to the comments that those groups are somehow not good enough to be greek<<<

I don't think that anyone meant to convey the idea that the smallest house on the campus isn't "good enough to be greek". The fact is, though, that they are about 1/3 the size of the largest chapter. I think everyone agrees (probably even their own members) that, realistically, if the deal they have is that they must COB to chapter average within one year, it will be extremely hard. The struggle that some of the other chapters that are against expansion seem to be having is that they realize that a new chapter on campus may prove too much for the smallest chapter and they will fold. Please correct me if I am wrong, Browneyedgirl.