Has the tradition of Legacies outgrown its usefulness?

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Also, as the number of legacies increase, moms and such need to keep in mind that the chapters can't take every single one of them.

I think the concept of extending special consideration to legacies is very important, because you're getting someone who has seen over as much as 18 years what the GLO means to the family member.

I don't understand why sororities would agree to policies that make them eliminate legacies they would otherwise want. To have to cut someone who wants to join, and the chapter wants, seems the height of arbitrary.

Nothing in the policies, though, should require a chapter to consider a member they don't want, legacy or not. Nor should anything require a rushee to consider a house she doesn't want, legacy or not.

[BlueCarnation]

I think a lot of it is how the individual chapter deals with the issue and who the particular alum and rushee are. I was a legacy through my grandmother at Theta (different campus), and was released after the second group of parties. My grandfather was furious, and was not going to give Theta any more money from my grandmother's estate. I knew I was not a good fit with that chapter, so it really didn't bother me; he eventually came around.

I know that we have had older alumnae who have been very upset because they feel that the reasons their legacies have been released for are invalid or unacceptable reasons. They have expressly said things like "if I was good enough, why wasn't she?" They can take it very personally. Some times, chapters just handle it poorly. But most of the time, a legacy just isn't a fit, and as someone else said, you have to realize it's a different time than when you rushed and there are other wonderful chapters out there. It's the same with getting into the same college, etc. These things happen.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I think the concept of extending special consideration to legacies is very important, because you're getting someone who has seen over as much as 18 years what the GLO means to the family member.

I don't understand why sororities would agree to policies that make them eliminate legacies they would otherwise want. To have to cut someone who wants to join, and the chapter wants, seems the height of arbitrary.

Nothing in the policies, though, should require a chapter to consider a member they don't want, legacy or not. Nor should anything require a rushee to consider a house she doesn't want, legacy or not.

Or, you're getting someone who didn't find out until she was going through rush that her mom was an XYZ, let alone in a sorority. I don't agree with giving (for example) national volunteers' daughters more consideration than just garden variety alums, but to assume that every legacy has been schooled in the wonderfulness of Greek life is a bit naive.

I don't think anyone ever said you should be FORCED to cut legacies. But someone's gotta go somewhere. Think of it from the point of view of the sorority sister at Bama who has 300 new pledge sisters - because that's what would happen (and I'm probably underestimating at some chapters) if all the legacies were taken. After a while, that's not a sorority, that's a small corporation.

How can rushees or chapters know what group they want if they don't even consider them?? Like I've said before, it's wonderful that you only looked at one group and it worked out for you, but that is not the experience for the majority of NPC women, thank God.

[DubaiSis]

I feel for the chapters now having to deal with the bizarrely over-involved mothers. I mean really. Can you seriously think that your sorority is the only good one possible? And that reputations, activities, etc. haven't changed in 20-30-40 years or from campus to campus? Even the songs they sing won't be all the same.

But I still think using the legacy system is valuable. Any detail that helps you know a PNM any better is helpful, especially if you're at a campus with 500+ PNMs per year. Also, I don't have children, but I still have hope for 2 nieces. I look forward to the opportunity to give them a leg up some day. It's the least I can do, right?

[AOII_LB93]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I think it would serve parents well to get up to speed on what it means to be a legacy in this day and age. Back when some moms were rushing, legacies may have been pretty much guaranteed bids. It simply doesn't work that way today.

I can't even begin to tell you how much I agree with this. Even at schools where you don't get a whole lot of legacies, and there is not a super competitive recruitment, it disturbs me that some alums automatically assume that their daughter is going to be an ABC because they were. I'm sorry, sure they might get an invite to round 2, but is it really fair if you force a collegiate chapter to take someone that they don't want for whatever reason just because mommy might get mad?

If I have a daughter and someday she wants to rush, I'll be happy if she is happy. If she's an AOII, that would be awesome, but if not that's ok too...she'll just be paying her own dues. (I'm not kidding, she'd be paying them herself anyhow, AOII or not. )

[PhoenixAzul]

Coming from a local sorority...legacies have a bit of a special tie. It's so rare to have one! The two years I was a PX, I had at least 3 legacies in my groups...and oddly enough I can think of only 1 who went to her legacy chapter (direct, her sister was in the chapter if I remember correctly?). While each sorority has their own policy, generally legacies are offered an invitation to first round parties (although it is up to the PNM to accept or regret the invite...). And it is also the responsibility of the PNM to identify herself in her sign up form as a legacy. You'd be amazed at how many girls have no idea if they are or not. I don't know of any legacies in my sorority since I joined, although we were re-founded in the 80's so it is almost time for those first few refounding sisters to have children going through recruitment!

I think whoever mentioned legacies being important on a small campus was on to something. Because our chapters and campus are so small, I think that legacies take on a very special role. We've also got these massive families of alumni who send all their kids to OC, so I guess it really is an ingrained and innate thing. Our alumni are extremely loyal (and that's how we like 'em )

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I don't agree with giving (for example) national volunteers' daughters more consideration than just garden variety alums, but to assume that every legacy has been schooled in the wonderfulness of Greek life is a bit naive.

See, I don't have a problem with extra consideration for especially dedicated alumnae either. I see it more in college admissions than sorority recruitment, but the belief behind that extra consideration is that happy alumnae tend to give more often, and in larger amounts. What's one way to make an alumnus happy? Let their kid into the college or sorority!

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by 33girl

... to assume that every legacy has been schooled in the wonderfulness of Greek life is a bit naive.

...snip...

How can rushees or chapters know what group they want if they don't even consider them??

Didn't mean to imply they were "schooled in wonderfulness." Simply stating that agreeing to a policy where you would HAVE to cut legacies you would otherwise want is kowtowing to the arbitrary.There is no way a group would want to pledge all 300 legacies, assuming that number isn't hyperbole.

And some don't have to consider greek life to know they don't want it. Despite her seeing what DG means to me, my daughter took one look at the rush booklet and pitched it.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I do think that the Legacy question needs to be explored. Let's face it, 100 years ago, not too many people (women especially) went to college. Their children became legacies, and all was good. The same with their children, and the next generation. We once had a FIVE generation legacy go through Recruitment, and trust me, even though she really didn't want to go Greek, and wasn't exactly lovable, we had to extend her a bid - but that's a whole 'nuther story.

However, just like a family tree, legacies started to expand. If (as in my original example) one Greek has two legacies, and each of them have two legacies, and each of them have two legacies - that's eight legacies right there. Now multiply that by the original 30 people in a chapter, and you have 180 legacies - with a quota of 60. Ouch!

I don't have an answer to this, but I think this is an issue that truly needs to be discussed more fully. The number of legacies are only going to increase as years go by, and somehow, they should be offered some sort of courtesy. Granted, many legacies will prefer another house, but I do think we need to discuss how to show courtesy to legacies without hurting anyone else.

Suggestions?

I'm not intimately familiar with campuses and chapters that may have a bazillion legacies going through recruitment, but it seems to me that the typical legacy at my alma mater had connections to multiple sororities (whether they were actual legacies or another relative such as aunt, cousin, etc.) Looking through the current recruitment applications, I see that very clearly. Obviously, there are plenty of cases where a PNM's entire family is from one organization, but that *seems* to be the exception rather than rule (please correct me if this does not apply to some campuses).

Just as you mention the expanding legacy tree, I also see where as it expands, the legacy pool gets diluted, if you will, by other affiliations.
A PNM coming through recruitment today could be made a legacy by her mom (1), step-mom (1), grandmothers (2), great grandmothers (4) and her sisters (unlimited, I guess), and aunts, for those organizations who consider nieces as legacies. That's room for a lot of potential, overlapping, legacy-ness.

So... of those 180 legacies in your hypothetical example, how many might be legacies to other organizations?

[LAblondeGPhi]

Question: how many organizations consider you a legacy if your great-great grandmother was a member? That's where I see the big problems coming in (IMO). As the years go by, you'll increasingly get descendants of members of the organization who have no real connection to the organization any more. If legacy-making sticks to mothers, sisters, and grandmothers, then at least you have some containment.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Didn't mean to imply they were "schooled in wonderfulness." Simply stating that agreeing to a policy where you would HAVE to cut legacies you would otherwise want is kowtowing to the arbitrary.There is no way a group would want to pledge all 300 legacies, assuming that number isn't hyperbole.

And some don't have to consider greek life to know they don't want it. Despite her seeing what DG means to me, my daughter took one look at the rush booklet and pitched it.

**bangs head on desk**

Where have you ever seen something that says a group is agreeing to a policy where you have to cut legacies? The only thing groups agree to is (by campus) following total and quota rules. If that means some legacies have to be cut, they do, but it's not because there are legacies, it's because there are too effing many of them.

And ask carnation, aopirose or some of the other women experienced in Southern rush - at some schools, at some chapters, that number is NOT hyperbole.

Doesn't your daughter go to UT or another large, very competitive sorority-wise school? I'm not surprised she wasn't interested, as her experience would be absolutely nothing like yours. I'm sure she's smart enough to look at the sizes of the chapters and figure that out.

[LyreLove2012]

On our campus, being a legacy just tells us that a pnm's family is accepting of greek life, and therefore would be less likely to drop out after receiving a bid (from parental influence). We do enjoy "stealing" legacies from other chapters :-p

[DGTess]

[quote]
Where have you ever seen something that says a group is agreeing to a policy where you have to cut legacies? The only thing groups agree to is (by campus) following total and quota rules. If that means some legacies have to be cut, they do, but it's not because there are legacies, it's because there are too effing many of them.{/quote]

If a sorority (yes, I'm talking big Sorority, not chapter) agrees to total/quota (whatever it is) rules that prohibit bringing back for a second or further round a woman they want to get to know, they're kowtowing to the arbitrary.

Duh. I never said it was because they are legacies. I find it utterly atrocious that you would not invite back the women you might want.

[crescent&pearls]

[QUOTE=DGTess;1838494]

If a sorority (yes, I'm talking big Sorority, not chapter) agrees to total/quota (whatever it is) rules that prohibit bringing back for a second or further round a woman they want to get to know, they're kowtowing to the arbitrary.

Duh. I never said it was because they are legacies. I find it utterly atrocious that you would not invite back the women you might want.

That's the reality of recruitment. We can only invite back the women we MOST want. Just as PNMs must rank chapters they want MOST. If we're going to have a formal Panhellenic recruitment we have to have a system of limiting the number of invitations so that all chapters participating have a realtively equal opportunity to pledge quota and reach total. We do this in a spirit of mutual cooperation, support and respect. There would be no point in having a formal panhellenic recruitment, quota or total if there were not limits on the numbers each chapter could invite back to each round.

It's great when legacies are pledged and initiated and it all works out happy for everyone....but I think NPC members who don't support their legacies in making their own choices and being happy for them however it turns out do their own legacy a huge disservice. Let her be her own woman and enjoy her own experience!

[DGTess]

And now we're back to an earlier point... it's Panhellenic recruitment which, I submit, causes superficial rush, and which causes us to eliminate women too soon.

Apparently we disagree. I despise the Panhellenic system; you seem to believe it's the best thing there is. Adults can disagree.