Has the tradition of Legacies outgrown its usefulness?

[PhoenixAzul]

Coming from a local sorority...legacies have a bit of a special tie. It's so rare to have one! The two years I was a PX, I had at least 3 legacies in my groups...and oddly enough I can think of only 1 who went to her legacy chapter (direct, her sister was in the chapter if I remember correctly?). While each sorority has their own policy, generally legacies are offered an invitation to first round parties (although it is up to the PNM to accept or regret the invite...). And it is also the responsibility of the PNM to identify herself in her sign up form as a legacy. You'd be amazed at how many girls have no idea if they are or not. I don't know of any legacies in my sorority since I joined, although we were re-founded in the 80's so it is almost time for those first few refounding sisters to have children going through recruitment!

I think whoever mentioned legacies being important on a small campus was on to something. Because our chapters and campus are so small, I think that legacies take on a very special role. We've also got these massive families of alumni who send all their kids to OC, so I guess it really is an ingrained and innate thing. Our alumni are extremely loyal (and that's how we like 'em )

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Yes, but I'm thinking deeper. If you have 180 legacies who were groomed to be an ABC with her first onesie, and quota is 60, how do you tell 120 perfect women that she can't pledge the same house as her mother, grandmother, ggrandmother, etc? It seems too cruel - and yet, there will be other women who doesn't have any greeks in her family, but everyone loves her.

I can see your point; it does seem cruel. But I don't see how the problem can be rectified. As you've said, the potential number of legacies is huge (and getting bigger). How could we (NPC in general) possibly allow all of them to pledge their legacy house (and that's assuming the chapter wants them all)? Have no quota or ceiling?

[honeychile]

*migraine looming*

My thoughts of the current legacy system have nothing to do with rebelling against the NPC. I think that most of the Power Ladies of the NPC realize the same thing I'm seeing - too many legacies for the quota.

So far this season, one chapter of ADPi had 70 legacies rushing a chapter. Quota was in the 50's, and while the chapter took quota, only 17 of the legacies were offered a bid. One the other hand, I knew a legacy going through Recruitment at my chapter who was so insufferably rude, I might have hurled if she got a bid, no matter that her mother, two aunts, and 2 cousins were all ADPis!

Maybe there needs to be a Legacy/Super Legacy system? The Legacy is the woman born to a sorority, the Super Legacy is the woman born to a sorority whose mother/grandmother was actively involved (physically or financially) to a chapter or a direct descendent of a Founder - for example.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by honeychile

*migraine looming*

My thoughts of the current legacy system have nothing to do with rebelling against the NPC.

I think most of those types of comments were directed at DGTess, not you.

Originally Posted by honeychile

Maybe there needs to be a Legacy/Super Legacy system? The Legacy is the woman born to a sorority, the Super Legacy is the woman born to a sorority whose mother/grandmother was actively involved (physically or financially) to a chapter or a direct descendent of a Founder - for example.

Then we would run into the issue of asking "how involved is involved enough to be considered a Super Legacy?"

I can just hear the moms now:

"I was a housemom for 20 years, yet Amy Alpha's mom serves as National Officer for 5 and is a Super Legacy?! *^%^%$5%!!"

I promise I'm not nitpicking, just adding to the discussion. I don't have a better solution, lol.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Also, as the number of legacies increase, moms and such need to keep in mind that the chapters can't take every single one of them.

I think the concept of extending special consideration to legacies is very important, because you're getting someone who has seen over as much as 18 years what the GLO means to the family member.

I don't understand why sororities would agree to policies that make them eliminate legacies they would otherwise want. To have to cut someone who wants to join, and the chapter wants, seems the height of arbitrary.

Nothing in the policies, though, should require a chapter to consider a member they don't want, legacy or not. Nor should anything require a rushee to consider a house she doesn't want, legacy or not.

[BlueCarnation]

I think a lot of it is how the individual chapter deals with the issue and who the particular alum and rushee are. I was a legacy through my grandmother at Theta (different campus), and was released after the second group of parties. My grandfather was furious, and was not going to give Theta any more money from my grandmother's estate. I knew I was not a good fit with that chapter, so it really didn't bother me; he eventually came around.

I know that we have had older alumnae who have been very upset because they feel that the reasons their legacies have been released for are invalid or unacceptable reasons. They have expressly said things like "if I was good enough, why wasn't she?" They can take it very personally. Some times, chapters just handle it poorly. But most of the time, a legacy just isn't a fit, and as someone else said, you have to realize it's a different time than when you rushed and there are other wonderful chapters out there. It's the same with getting into the same college, etc. These things happen.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I think the concept of extending special consideration to legacies is very important, because you're getting someone who has seen over as much as 18 years what the GLO means to the family member.

I don't understand why sororities would agree to policies that make them eliminate legacies they would otherwise want. To have to cut someone who wants to join, and the chapter wants, seems the height of arbitrary.

Nothing in the policies, though, should require a chapter to consider a member they don't want, legacy or not. Nor should anything require a rushee to consider a house she doesn't want, legacy or not.

Or, you're getting someone who didn't find out until she was going through rush that her mom was an XYZ, let alone in a sorority. I don't agree with giving (for example) national volunteers' daughters more consideration than just garden variety alums, but to assume that every legacy has been schooled in the wonderfulness of Greek life is a bit naive.

I don't think anyone ever said you should be FORCED to cut legacies. But someone's gotta go somewhere. Think of it from the point of view of the sorority sister at Bama who has 300 new pledge sisters - because that's what would happen (and I'm probably underestimating at some chapters) if all the legacies were taken. After a while, that's not a sorority, that's a small corporation.

How can rushees or chapters know what group they want if they don't even consider them?? Like I've said before, it's wonderful that you only looked at one group and it worked out for you, but that is not the experience for the majority of NPC women, thank God.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I don't agree with giving (for example) national volunteers' daughters more consideration than just garden variety alums, but to assume that every legacy has been schooled in the wonderfulness of Greek life is a bit naive.

See, I don't have a problem with extra consideration for especially dedicated alumnae either. I see it more in college admissions than sorority recruitment, but the belief behind that extra consideration is that happy alumnae tend to give more often, and in larger amounts. What's one way to make an alumnus happy? Let their kid into the college or sorority!

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by 33girl

... to assume that every legacy has been schooled in the wonderfulness of Greek life is a bit naive.

...snip...

How can rushees or chapters know what group they want if they don't even consider them??

Didn't mean to imply they were "schooled in wonderfulness." Simply stating that agreeing to a policy where you would HAVE to cut legacies you would otherwise want is kowtowing to the arbitrary.There is no way a group would want to pledge all 300 legacies, assuming that number isn't hyperbole.

And some don't have to consider greek life to know they don't want it. Despite her seeing what DG means to me, my daughter took one look at the rush booklet and pitched it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Didn't mean to imply they were "schooled in wonderfulness." Simply stating that agreeing to a policy where you would HAVE to cut legacies you would otherwise want is kowtowing to the arbitrary.There is no way a group would want to pledge all 300 legacies, assuming that number isn't hyperbole.

And some don't have to consider greek life to know they don't want it. Despite her seeing what DG means to me, my daughter took one look at the rush booklet and pitched it.

**bangs head on desk**

Where have you ever seen something that says a group is agreeing to a policy where you have to cut legacies? The only thing groups agree to is (by campus) following total and quota rules. If that means some legacies have to be cut, they do, but it's not because there are legacies, it's because there are too effing many of them.

And ask carnation, aopirose or some of the other women experienced in Southern rush - at some schools, at some chapters, that number is NOT hyperbole.

Doesn't your daughter go to UT or another large, very competitive sorority-wise school? I'm not surprised she wasn't interested, as her experience would be absolutely nothing like yours. I'm sure she's smart enough to look at the sizes of the chapters and figure that out.

[DoubleTDG]

I like that my biological sister will get extra consideration when she goes through recruitment (especially since right now she is leaning towards Texas Tech). Although I do tell her how much I would love for her to be a DG, I also tell her that it is her decision and any sorority she chooses will be a good one. I would much rather have her go greek because the experience is one I would not give up for anything than go DG when she felt more comfortable at another chapter.

[DubaiSis]

I feel for the chapters now having to deal with the bizarrely over-involved mothers. I mean really. Can you seriously think that your sorority is the only good one possible? And that reputations, activities, etc. haven't changed in 20-30-40 years or from campus to campus? Even the songs they sing won't be all the same.

But I still think using the legacy system is valuable. Any detail that helps you know a PNM any better is helpful, especially if you're at a campus with 500+ PNMs per year. Also, I don't have children, but I still have hope for 2 nieces. I look forward to the opportunity to give them a leg up some day. It's the least I can do, right?

[LAblondeGPhi]

Question: how many organizations consider you a legacy if your great-great grandmother was a member? That's where I see the big problems coming in (IMO). As the years go by, you'll increasingly get descendants of members of the organization who have no real connection to the organization any more. If legacy-making sticks to mothers, sisters, and grandmothers, then at least you have some containment.

[LyreLove2012]

On our campus, being a legacy just tells us that a pnm's family is accepting of greek life, and therefore would be less likely to drop out after receiving a bid (from parental influence). We do enjoy "stealing" legacies from other chapters :-p

[DGTess]

[quote]
Where have you ever seen something that says a group is agreeing to a policy where you have to cut legacies? The only thing groups agree to is (by campus) following total and quota rules. If that means some legacies have to be cut, they do, but it's not because there are legacies, it's because there are too effing many of them.{/quote]

If a sorority (yes, I'm talking big Sorority, not chapter) agrees to total/quota (whatever it is) rules that prohibit bringing back for a second or further round a woman they want to get to know, they're kowtowing to the arbitrary.

Duh. I never said it was because they are legacies. I find it utterly atrocious that you would not invite back the women you might want.