Order of the Phoenix Spoiler Thread - Page 13

CutiePie2000 · #**181** 07-11-2003, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rainbowbrightCS
I wonder what hermoine would see?

She would probably see herself winning the highest academic award!

CutiePie2000 · #**182** 07-11-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MysticCat81
If you really want to lose hours of your life (and have fun doing it), check out this page of Puzzles, Reg Herrings, Clues and Mysteries at The Leaky Cauldron.

Thank you for posting that....it's interesting and there are a lot of thought provoking questions... I would like to discuss this one:
Are all the Slytherins nasty and ugly? Do they all turn into Dark Wizards? Then what happens if you're sorted into Slytherin but you're NOT evil? Are you just out of luck?

And also, obviously, each house has a "reputation"..
Slytherin - the "bad kids house"
Gryffindor - the "good kids house"
Ravenclaw - the "smart kids house" (but they are also "good). (i.e. remember when that Ravenclaw kid asks Hermione why she did not become a Ravenclaw and she said that the Sorting Hat did want to put her there initially? My thinking is that the Sorting Hat could "see" her fledgling friendships with Harry and Ron and thus, put her in the G-House).

What is Hufflepuff's reputation? The 'fat kid' house? (i.e. the "puff" is making me think that). I seem to recall that in the "new Sorting Hat song", Helga Hufflepuff vowed to "train the lot" or something, which leads me to think that Hufflepuff is a very PC house and not very discriminating (although they are still essentially "good" people, cuz all the baddies go to Slytherin)....thoughts? Is Hufflepuff considered to be "loser'y"?

aephi alum · #**183** 07-11-2003, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CutiePie2000
What is Hufflepuff's reputation? The 'fat kid' house? (i.e. the "puff" is making me think that). I seem to recall that in the "new Sorting Hat song", Helga Hufflepuff vowed to "train the lot" or something, which leads me to think that Hufflepuff is a very PC house and not very discriminating (although they are still essentially "good" people, cuz all the baddies go to Slytherin)....thoughts? Is Hufflepuff considered to be "loser'y"?

I think Hufflepuff's reputation is that they will take anyone not suited to any of the other three houses. Gryffindors are brave, Ravenclaws are smart, Slyterins are sneaky and underhanded - so if you're not particularly brave, smart, or sneaky, you go to Hufflepuff.

MysticCat · #**184** 07-11-2003, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sherbertlemons
I don't think that Harry will even communicate with him. JKR's said in interveiws that death has to be permanent, or else it isn't scary. I really don't think she'd halfway kill him like that. (Because, really, killing him but letting Harry still communicate with him really isn't killing him off, y'know?)

My perspective- Sirius is dead. In this world, dead means absolutely gone. The only way Harry might talk to him is some kind of device that somehow traps a shadow of him, a bit like Tom Riddle's diary but maybe interactive.

I think you are quite right, but still things may not be quite as absolute as they seem. Remember the return of HWMNBN in GoF? The "shadow" of Harry's parents comes out of You-Know-Who's wand as it spits out recent spells. But the "shadows" communicate with Harry -- he doesn't merely see them replaying an old event, but they actually advise him on what to do and when to do it so that he can escape. It wasn't really his parents, but it wasn't really a "shadow" either -- I think we'll learn more about that veil in books 6 and 7.

MysticCat · #**185** 07-11-2003, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aephi alum
I think Hufflepuff's reputation is that they will take anyone not suited to any of the other three houses. Gryffindors are brave, Ravenclaws are smart, Slyterins are sneaky and underhanded - so if you're not particularly brave, smart, or sneaky, you go to Hufflepuff.

I don't think its quite that cut and dry -- if for no other reason than first years have to be divided among the houses pretty evenly.

I think it is more that three of the founders looked for a particular trait above, though not necessarily to the exclusion of, all others:

Slytherin looked particularly for cunning. While this word often (usually) has a negative meaning ("skill in deception; guile"), it doesn't have to. (It can also mean "skill or adeptness in execution or performance; dexterity." Thanks, Dictionary.com.) I think Hagrid is exaggerating when he says that all Dark Wizards came from Slytherin, or that the whole house is sneaky. Nevertheless, the values of Slytherin certainly can lean that way. Remember too that Slytherin wanted only "purebloods," and the pureblood vs. half-blood mentality seems to lie at the root of much Dark Wizardry.

Gryffindor looked particularly for bravery. (Hermione I think ended up here because, while smart and cunning, she also shows herself to be most "powerful" when required to be brave.)

Ravenclaw looked particularly for intelligence and mental accuity.

Hufflepuff on the other hand, seemed to take a much broader view: it's almost as though she said "Give me anybody and I can make a good witch/wizard out of them." She seemed to look more for balance than for a particular outstanding trait.

I don't think there's any suggestion that Hufflepuffs are losers, left-overs, or the like. Remember that Cedric Diggory was a Hufflepuff, and he was honorable (he tried to "uncatch the snitch" when Harry fell from his broomstick in PoA) as well as brave, cunning and smart enough to be selected as Hogwarts champion in the Triwizard Tournament, a role that we see he deserved.

CutiePie2000 · #**186** 07-11-2003, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MysticCat81
I don't think its quite that cut and dry -- if for no other reason than first years have to be divided among the houses pretty evenly......

I don't think there's any suggestion that Hufflepuffs are losers, left-overs, or the like. Remember that Cedric Diggory was a Hufflepuff, and he was honorable (he tried to "uncatch the snitch" when Harry fell from his broomstick in PoA) as well as brave, cunning and smart enough to be selected as Hogwarts champion in the Triwizard Tournament, a role that we see he deserved.

Right...I need to re-read GoF, because I was thinking that Cedric was a Ravenclaw (since Cho is one). My memory is seriously failing.

Also, as for the "cut and dried" there might be some "good kids" in Slytherin, but if there is, J.K. has not told us who they are or shown them at all -- Thus we are prejudiced to think that there are no "goodies" in Slytherin (and the movie, where they are playing Quidditch, none of the Slytherin Quidditch players look very nice at all). We all know that Malfoy is a badass, Crabbe and Goyle are dumb but nasty, and Pansy needs to slapped a few times.

If Harry had been sorted into Slytherin, he probably would have been the only good kid in there. Remember how the Sorting Hat contemplated putting him there (likely because he has a little bit of "essence of Voldemort" in him...the ability to speak Parselmouth, etc.). Thank Goodness that Harry did not get sent to the badass house! Also, there is some discussion earlier in the thread that Lily might be of mixed blood, so Harry might not be 100% Wizard, he might be 75% wizard blood (assuming that James is 100% and Lilly was 50-50) or Harry might be 50% wizard blood (assuming that James is 100% and Lilly was Muggle born, along the lines of Hermione). In any case, if Harry is not 100% Wizard blood, that might also explain why he did not go into Slytherin (not to mention he was pleading with the Sorting Hat silently , "not Slytherin")

aephi alum · #**187** 07-11-2003, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CutiePie2000
If Harry had been sorted into Slytherin, he probably would have been the only good kid in there. Remember how the Sorting Hat contemplated putting him there (likely because he has a little bit of "essence of Voldemort" in him...the ability to speak Parselmouth, etc.). Thank Goodness that Harry did not get sent to the badass house! Also, there is some discussion earlier in the thread that Lily might be of mixed blood, so Harry might not be 100% Wizard, he might be 75% wizard blood (assuming that James is 100% and Lilly was 50-50) or Harry might be 50% wizard blood (assuming that James is 100% and Lilly was Muggle born, along the lines of Hermione). In any case, if Harry is not 100% Wizard blood, that might also explain why he did not go into Slytherin (not to mention he was pleading with the Sorting Hat silently , "not Slytherin")

But the Sorting Hat also said to Harry, "I was right - you would have done well in Slytherin." Harry definitely has enough cunning to be attractive to Slytherin. But he was begging not to go to Slytherin, and we've seen his bravery as well as his cunning - hence Gryffindor.

The Hat would most likely not place someone in Slytherin if one or both of their parents were Muggles (e.g. Hermione) - but James Potter's family appears to be pureblood or close to it, and both of Harry's immediate parents were wizards even if Lily's family was a mixed bag. Apparently this would make him "acceptable" for Slytherin.

I don't think the Hufflepuffs are losers or leftovers either - maybe I phrased that badly. I suspect that you need to meet certain requirements (aside from just being a wizard) in order to get into Hogwarts in the first place - we know there are other wizarding schools. Ravenclaw, Gryffindor, and Slytherin were interested in specific character traits, but Hufflepuff's philosophy seems to be (as MysticCat said) that you don't need to have a specific trait to be a good wizard.

Oh, I think Cedric was a Hufflepuff...

CutiePie2000 · #**188** 07-11-2003, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aephi alum

But the Sorting Hat also said to Harry, "I was right - you would have done well in Slytherin."
I remember that part, and while that may be, the kid would have been miserable and crying his eyes out every night, because he would never get any respite from Malfoy ever. He would have had no friends in Slytherin as there does not appear to be any "nice kids" in that house at all (if there are, J.K. is hiding them very well).

Oh, I think Cedric was a Hufflepuff...
Yup, MysticCat said so as well. I need to re-read Book 4 as I forget a lot of it!

Also, I think because of the new Softing Hat Song, where it says something like Helga Hufflepuff would 'train the lot', I perceived a bit of a "leftover'y" kind of feeling from the term 'the lot', that's all. If someone can quote from the book what the Sorting Hat says, it will help. Thank you!

My next question......
Are there any "good Slytherins"?
It sure doesn't seem that way, and remember in Book #1, Harry looks over at the Slytherins and thinks them to be a "nasty looking lot" or something like that..... I believe this is pre-Sorting Hat ceremony in Book 1.

SilverTurtle · #**189** 07-11-2003, 05:00 PM

I think it would be interesting if a small contigent of "good Slytherins" appear in Book 6 as members of the DA. I imagine it would add a lot of drama to the school, too, given the impression that all of the other houses of Slytherin. Doubt it will happen, but I'd be interested to see it.

sugar and spice · #**190** 07-11-2003, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CutiePie2000

What is Hufflepuff's reputation? The 'fat kid' house? (i.e. the "puff" is making me think that). I seem to recall that in the "new Sorting Hat song", Helga Hufflepuff vowed to "train the lot" or something, which leads me to think that Hufflepuff is a very PC house and not very discriminating (although they are still essentially "good" people, cuz all the baddies go to Slytherin)....thoughts? Is Hufflepuff considered to be "loser'y"?

On the train in the first book, when Harry was with Ron, Hermione and Neville, weren't they talking about which house they wanted to be in and nobody wanted Hufflepuff? I get the impression that Hufflepuff is looked down upon a little bit (sort of like the sorority that will "take anybody"

), even though that was, of course, not the founders' original intention.

"Hufflepuff" always made me think of "fat kids" too.

tinydancer · #**191** 07-11-2003, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aephi alum
Something just occurred to me...

In book 1, when Ron looks into the Mirror of Erised, he sees himself as Quidditch captain and Head Boy.

In book 5, he is now a prefect and on the Quidditch team.

So he's actually on track, now, to fulfill what he saw in the mirror.

Hmmm.....

Yes!! I just realized that the other day. His desires seem to be coming true!

ToBeSororityGrl · #**192** 07-12-2003, 12:19 AM

Has anyone else wondered how Lily just became a wizard? If her past family had all been muggles, therefore there was not any wizard traits in the family, how in the world did she have that trait to be a wizard?

I read the first 4 books so quickly years ago that it's a blur to me now, but I first thought that the way Hermione was able to attend Hogwarts was because she found out and wanted to, not because she received a letter, but I just read in the thread that this is not the case.

Still have mixed feelings about the 5th book. I started to get really annoyed with the "education decrees" and Umbridge that I felt like the book was becoming sad I guess.

James · #**193** 07-12-2003, 01:33 AM

I think it might be important to remember that the Potter books have grown with the telling.

Sorcerer's Stone was JKR's first ever novel and would make sense that the success of the novel and the subsequent series has led to an extraordinary and unexpected growth to the story.

So we can expect some blank spots and inconstancies.

For example, regardless whether James's family and Lilly's family were muggles or wizards, it would be unusual that they would all be wiped off the face of the earth without a mention or even a comment by someone talking to Harry.

Its just Author's licence.

rainbowbrightCS · #**194** 07-12-2003, 09:24 AM

sorry you guy are wrong. Look in book one.

I went to mugglent.com and they had the infor about each house. Hufflepuff is not the fat kid or loser house.

Gryffindor
You might belong in Gryffindor, where dwell the brave at heart, their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart.."

Slytherin
Or perhaps in Slytherin, you'll make your real friends, those cunning folk use any means, to achieve their ends."

Ravenclaw
Or yet in wise old Ravenclaw, if you've a ready mind, where those of wit and learning, will always find their kind."

and then there is

Hufflepuff
You might belong in Hufflepuff, where those are just and loyal, those patient Hufflepuff's are true and unafraid of toil."

Hufflepuff is loyal! Why do they think Hufflepuff was mad at Harry Potter when he was the 2nd Champion in GoF? They were loyal to their Champion. Diggory!

An other showing of there loyalty was in PoA when Harry stoped the snake from attacking Justin Flinch-Fletchley, the Hufflepuff where mad at him also.

They are loyal and faithful, and just!

Christia

P.S I have done my homework before I posted this.

sugar and spice · #**195** 07-13-2003, 05:13 AM

I don't think it necessarily IS the loser house, just that it is viewed that way. In any situation, the least selective organization (sorority, sports team or Hogwarts house) is often viewed as the "loser" one. This is the case with Hufflepuff.