BGLO and GLO

[Kimmie1913]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00:
I dont understand why there needs to be black fraternities and sororities. I am in NO WAY prejudice. I have black friends who are in a fraternity. They chose to join a regular GLO over the black ones. With all the complaints about being equal, doesn't having your own greek organization separate u even more on a college campus? BGLOs on my campus are never around. They don't participate in Greek Week, dont party wiht us. Until recently I didn't even know there were black fraternities and sororities on campus. I am not PREJUDICE. I just want to make that clear. I'm just asking a simple question....why segregate urselves even more that u say u are?

It is not segregation if it is by choice. Segregation is being barred from association or participation. If all the Asian students choose to live in one house because they want to not because they have to then it is not segregation.

Now that it has been made clear to you that Historically BGLO's are open to anyone who wants to join, how would you address the question of how about we get rid of your "regular" GLO's and everyone join HBGLO's? I suspect there is a reason that they chose their organization just as there is a reason I chose Delta Sigma Theta. Race is not the only distinguishing characteristic of an HBGLO. It may be the one people choose to see most readily but there is a lot more there than that. For that reason each of the divine nine exists and will continue to exist. These organizations serve a purpose not only in the African American community but also in the community at large. Even though we have a specific agenda, that agenda still works in the bigger scheme of things to serve all people. I think when people open their eyes to see the bigger picture your question is easily answered.

Further there are cultural differences between the orgs that may make some one gravitate one way or another.

I feel your question stirred up this type of response based on the incorrect assumptions that were a part of it and the tone the assumptions gave it. Having gained (hopefully) some knowledge does you question still remain or do you have anything to add to/take away from it?


------------------
Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Inc.
Baltimore Metropolitan Alumnae Chapter
#3 of ER 30
Spring 1999

"No finer girls will you ever see, and I'm so glad I pledged- for what?
For DST!"

[Kimmie1913]

To everyone-

For those who think some of the responses have been harsh or strong, try and put yourselves in the poster’s shoes for a minute. As another poster pointed out members of BGLO's get just as tired of being asked to justify their existence as members of GLO's do. The original question was laced with incorrect assumptions as its basis and any one who has taken any kind of logic or other math course knows- garbage in, garbage out- if the premise is flawed you cannot get a valid result.
-BGLO's do not discriminate on the basis of race and were born out of the fact that other GLO's in existence at the time did.
-Anyone can join a BGLO regardless of race.
-To choose to be in a BGLO is not a segregationist act.

For any member of a BGLO, the choice to join was the same as it was for members of other GLO's- where will I feel comfortable (that is a personal choice and it differs for everyone, that is why there are so many GLO's to begin with) how to my beliefs align with those of the organization, how do my personal principles and sense of honor align with the organization? The answer may be Delta Sigma Theta or Delta Delta Delta; it may be Alpha Kappa Alpha or Alpha Phi. That is a question only that individual can answer.

Because those questions are the same no matter the org., I am not really sure of the need to ask this particular question (over and over).

Also as an African American female it can be exhausting to always be called upon to answer for your race and your orgs and explain every action that is not readily understood by others. Why did I join a BGLO? Because I wanted to. Why did I eat lunch as an underbred with all African American students? Because I wanted to. I did not pick my friends because of their race/ethnicity. I picked them because of who they were, part of that is their race/ethnicity. However, I have friends of all ethnicities. Just because you look over and see all Black kids together does not have to mean any more than my looking over and seeing all White kids together. You do not want me to assume you are prejudice any more than I want you to. Nor do I understand why it is often looked at as the African American students’ responsibility to integrate the other organizations. You could have just as easily come over here as I could have gone over there. I am no more responsible for that than you are.

So intentional or not, this is what the original question conveyed to me through its content and tone. Yes I want equality and that has nothing to do with whether or not I party with your GLO. It is about whether or not I am denied opportunities, education and freedom of movement and association. That does not require that I always surround myself in a multicultural atmosphere at all. We are all free to associate however we choose. I don’t oppose the KKK's right to associate; I oppose their attempts to deny me opportunity and liberty.

I hope this helped give some GCers more insight in to my experience and into some of the responses in this and other threads. Race relations continue to be a difficult topic in this society so I suspect it will continue to be the same on GC.


------------------
Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Inc.
Baltimore Metropolitan Alumnae Chapter
#3 of ER 30
Spring 1999

"No finer girls will you ever see, and I'm so glad I pledged- for what?
For DST!"

[DST Love]

Originally posted by Kimmie1913:
To everyone-

For those who think some of the responses have been harsh or strong, try and put yourselves in the poster’s shoes for a minute. As another poster pointed out members of BGLO's get just as tired of being asked to justify their existence as members of GLO's do. The original question was laced with incorrect assumptions as its basis and any one who has taken any kind of logic or other math course knows- garbage in, garbage out- if the premise is flawed you cannot get a valid result.
-BGLO's do not discriminate on the basis of race and were born out of the fact that other GLO's in existence at the time did.
-Anyone can join a BGLO regardless of race.
-To choose to be in a BGLO is not a segregationist act.

For any member of a BGLO, the choice to join was the same as it was for members of other GLO's- where will I feel comfortable (that is a personal choice and it differs for everyone, that is why there are so many GLO's to begin with) how to my beliefs align with those of the organization, how do my personal principles and sense of honor align with the organization? The answer may be Delta Sigma Theta or Delta Delta Delta; it may be Alpha Kappa Alpha or Alpha Phi. That is a question only that individual can answer.

Because those questions are the same no matter the org., I am not really sure of the need to ask this particular question (over and over).

Also as an African American female it can be exhausting to always be called upon to answer for your race and your orgs and explain every action that is not readily understood by others. Why did I join a BGLO? Because I wanted to. Why did I eat lunch as an underbred with all African American students? Because I wanted to. I did not pick my friends because of their race/ethnicity. I picked them because of who they were, part of that is their race/ethnicity. However, I have friends of all ethnicities. Just because you look over and see all Black kids together does not have to mean any more than my looking over and seeing all White kids together. You do not want me to assume you are prejudice any more than I want you to. Nor do I understand why it is often looked at as the African American students’ responsibility to integrate the other organizations. You could have just as easily come over here as I could have gone over there. I am no more responsible for that than you are.

So intentional or not, this is what the original question conveyed to me through its content and tone. Yes I want equality and that has nothing to do with whether or not I party with your GLO. It is about whether or not I am denied opportunities, education and freedom of movement and association. That does not require that I always surround myself in a multicultural atmosphere at all. We are all free to associate however we choose. I don’t oppose the KKK's right to associate; I oppose their attempts to deny me opportunity and liberty.

I hope this helped give some GCers more insight in to my experience and into some of the responses in this and other threads. Race relations continue to be a difficult topic in this society so I suspect it will continue to be the same on GC.

Well said, Soror!!!!!

------------------
#10 Sigma (Clark Atlanta University) Spring 1999
Currently: MAL, Southern Region

[TRSimon]

Point of Clarification:

Originally posted by SilverTurtle:

There's some important history in the founding of BGLOs. It was a big deal for blacks to attend college (albeit at black-only schools), much less start organizations that have grown to such proportions.

My organization, Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority, Inc. was founded on the campus of Butler University. Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity Inc. was founded on the campus of Indiana University. Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc., the first of the BGLOs that continue to exist today, was founded on the campus of Cornell University.

The founders of the NPHC organizations/BGLOs did not do so on only all-black campuses.

On the segregation question - well said, Kimmie.

[This message has been edited by TRSimon (edited July 03, 2001).]

[Corbin Dallas]

I think a better way to phrase the question that started this entire thread, is "why is there a need to differentiate between W/B/L/AGLO's? Why aren't there JUST GLO's?"

Also, I think a good answer to end this discussion (even though i'm not saying it needs to end) would be, because if there was no such thing as a black/latino/a/asian community, there would be no need to work to uplift it. In other words, if society was truly integrated, so would GLO's be truly integrated. However, as long as people of different backgrounds continue to, for lack of a better word, segregate themselves, there will also be a need for fraternities meant to specifically help their communities.

I hope this message is clear to everyone. I didn't understand at first either, but after living a sheltered life for 18 years or so, i've realized that even where there is equal opportunity and rights for all people regardless of race, creed, sex, or age, people still tend to associate with those of the same race, creed, sex, or age group.

Feel free to make any additions or ammendments to my statements as you see fit

------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

[ZChi4Life]

Originally posted by Corbin Dallas:
I think a better way to phrase the question that started this entire thread, is "why is there a need to differentiate between W/B/L/AGLO's? Why aren't there JUST GLO's?"

Also, I think a good answer to end this discussion (even though i'm not saying it needs to end) would be, because if there was no such thing as a black/latino/a/asian community, there would be no need to work to uplift it. In other words, if society was truly integrated, so would GLO's be truly integrated. However, as long as people of different backgrounds continue to, for lack of a better word, segregate themselves, there will also be a need for fraternities meant to specifically help their communities.

I hope this message is clear to everyone. I didn't understand at first either, but after living a sheltered life for 18 years or so, i've realized that even where there is equal opportunity and rights for all people regardless of race, creed, sex, or age, people still tend to associate with those of the same race, creed, sex, or age group.

Feel free to make any additions or ammendments to my statements as you see fit

Corbin I agree with you, but I think that even IF the world was TRULY integrated, people would STILL find their ethnic communities and associate with them. As an African American and a member of a multicultural sorority, I can attest to this. While my sorority's purpose is to "unify women of diverse cultures for the common goal of success in education", I still feel the need and desire to associate with my African-Am people.
But I definitely agree with what you said, but I just think regardless if the world were truly integrated or not, people will STILL always seek their OWN for whatever reasons.
Just my 4 cents

------------------
A Radiant Lady of
Zeta Sigma Chi Multicultural Sorority, Inc.
"Diversity: Often perpetrated, never initiated"

[SweetestDiva]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00:
hmm U know what? I'm really sick of hearing about how I shouldve done a search. Well I"M SORRY that I didn't feel like it. Those posts are prolly outdated so I decided to start another one. And I value other peoples opinions, but if it bothers u SOOOO much that there are other threads, then dont read this one! And dont post! What is so hard about that? Sorry to be so...well...bishy, but its really starting to bother me that so many people are putting me down just for a simple question that i asked.

You're right.. you are being a little "bishy". I was only trying to help you out. There's a lot of threads already that could answer your question. The purpose of BGLOs is never outdated.

[Ideal08]

Corbin, I agree with the beginning of your post, but that's not what I want to comment on, lol. Although that would be utopia, and you know how close we are to that!

Originally posted by Corbin Dallas:
i've realized that even where there is equal opportunity and rights for all people regardless of race, creed, sex, or age, people still tend to associate with those of the same race, creed, sex, or age group.

Where, exactly, would that be? Think about that, seriously. (This is really a rhetorical question. Sometimes you have to point that out, lol. )

Here's another question: Is it "bad" to associate with people who are the "same" as you? If not, why do people harp on it? I'm sure each of you has either heard the question, or has asked it: Why do all the Black people sit together in the cafeteria? What difference does it make? Is it because it seems as though Black people segregate themselves? I'm trying to get a handle on this, and I know it seems off topic, but it's really not.

As they would say on Coffee Talk, talk amongst yourselves. Discuss!

[Corbin Dallas]

Originally posted by Ideal08:
Where, exactly, would that be? Think about that, seriously. (This is really a rhetorical question. Sometimes you have to point that out, lol. )

Here's another question: Is it "bad" to associate with people who are the "same" as you? If not, why do people harp on it? I'm sure each of you has either heard the question, or has asked it: Why do all the Black people sit together in the cafeteria? What difference does it make? Is it because it seems as though Black people segregate themselves? I'm trying to get a handle on this, and I know it seems off topic, but it's really not.

As they would say on Coffee Talk, talk amongst yourselves. Discuss!

I don't know that TRUE equal opportunity takes place anywhere, even people that aren't outwardly prejudice have SOME prejudice in the back of their mind, even if they don't know it. The only time I really think it can happen is if it's completely blind, as in the person hiring or whatever doesn't know anything about the candidates that would give away their sex, color, creed, age, etc. That in itself is nearly impossible. I'm sure there are examples though. Seriously, it's like doing a physics problem in class (shop talk coming out). In theory the world is perfect, but in reality, there are small things that can change the problem in a big way.

I don't think it's bad for people to associate with "their own". However, I do think it's bad for people to limit themselves to that. You feelin' me on this? I don't know how to explain it exactly, but I think it's pretty self explanatory.


------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

[ZChi4Life]

Originally posted by Corbin Dallas:

I don't think it's bad for people to associate with "their own". However, I do think it's bad for people to limit themselves to that. You feelin' me on this? I don't know how to explain it exactly, but I think it's pretty self explanatory.

I feel you on that, most definitely!

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by Kimmie1913:
It is not segregation if it is by choice. Segregation is being barred from association or participation. If all the Asian students choose to live in one house because they want to not because they have to then it is not segregation....

OMG!!! Someone that has actually answered my question with no negativity! Thank you so much. That is all I was asking for. Not to start any fights, or have people get offended by my question. Kimmie, thank you so much for understand!

[sigtau305]

Originally posted by Kimmie1913:
To everyone-

For those who think some of the responses have been harsh or strong, try and put yourselves in the poster’s shoes for a minute. As another poster pointed out members of BGLO's get just as tired of being asked to justify their existence as members of GLO's do. The original question was laced with incorrect assumptions as its basis and any one who has taken any kind of logic or other math course knows- garbage in, garbage out- if the premise is flawed you cannot get a valid result.
-BGLO's do not discriminate on the basis of race and were born out of the fact that other GLO's in existence at the time did.
-Anyone can join a BGLO regardless of race.
-To choose to be in a BGLO is not a segregationist act.

For any member of a BGLO, the choice to join was the same as it was for members of other GLO's- where will I feel comfortable (that is a personal choice and it differs for everyone, that is why there are so many GLO's to begin with) how to my beliefs align with those of the organization, how do my personal principles and sense of honor align with the organization? The answer may be Delta Sigma Theta or Delta Delta Delta; it may be Alpha Kappa Alpha or Alpha Phi. That is a question only that individual can answer.

Because those questions are the same no matter the org., I am not really sure of the need to ask this particular question (over and over).

Also as an African American female it can be exhausting to always be called upon to answer for your race and your orgs and explain every action that is not readily understood by others. Why did I join a BGLO? Because I wanted to. Why did I eat lunch as an underbred with all African American students? Because I wanted to. I did not pick my friends because of their race/ethnicity. I picked them because of who they were, part of that is their race/ethnicity. However, I have friends of all ethnicities. Just because you look over and see all Black kids together does not have to mean any more than my looking over and seeing all White kids together. You do not want me to assume you are prejudice any more than I want you to. Nor do I understand why it is often looked at as the African American students’ responsibility to integrate the other organizations. You could have just as easily come over here as I could have gone over there. I am no more responsible for that than you are.

So intentional or not, this is what the original question conveyed to me through its content and tone. Yes I want equality and that has nothing to do with whether or not I party with your GLO. It is about whether or not I am denied opportunities, education and freedom of movement and association. That does not require that I always surround myself in a multicultural atmosphere at all. We are all free to associate however we choose. I don’t oppose the KKK's right to associate; I oppose their attempts to deny me opportunity and liberty.

I hope this helped give some GCers more insight in to my experience and into some of the responses in this and other threads. Race relations continue to be a difficult topic in this society so I suspect it will continue to be the same on GC.

that's about at good as it gets. excellent statement, kimmie


------------------
Garth J. Lampkin

[SoTrue1920]

Originally posted by Shelacious:
I usually don't comment on this type of topic, but I would just like to add...I initiated both a Mexican and a Vietnamese Soror in my undergraduate chapter, and while I voted for them because of their personality and what they could bring to the organization, I was also very conscious of their ethnicity. The culture in which they were brought up is as important to them as their name, their parents or their favorite ice cream. Just because they joined a predominately BGLO doesn't mean they desire to subjugate their ethnicity as a result. I totally understand what folks mean when they say they see "personality, not color", but I just assert that is not necessary to see only "personality” because their "color" (or better ethnicity), helps shape their personality, and the more one can appreciate this, the closer your relationship will often become.

Preach Soror, PREACH! :-D

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by finest_alum:

Hey AXO... apparently, you did FEEL the need to keep posting. Why waste your time; just go do your own search and post on the old thread if the new ones bother you so much? That would be much more refreshing than hearing you criticize PM's posts constantly... By the way, I'm a "senior" member also and enjoy "re-inventing" an old topic.. new people come on, and new opinions get expressed. Who cares if another thread talked of the same thing? Do you and your friends never talk of the the same subject twice?

hmmm....okay - let me get this straight..... it is perfectly okay for everyone else to say "go do a search" but not for me?? And its okay also, for you to say what I can and can't talk about, but not vice versa? Am I getting this straight so far?

And I am sorry, but could you please tell me exactly where I called your member status into question? I must have missed that one!

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00:
Good lord I love u! Yes there have been a number of critisms and it makes me even more mad that they are coming from a moderator!

I am going to run right over to the Moderator's forum and remind ALL moderators that we are not allowed to criticize others even if we are stating OUR OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS! I didn't realize when I signed up to be the moderator of the AXO forum that I signed away my right to freedom of speech! If you are expecting me to reply to every post you make with some happy-happy, joy-joy response, then keep holding your breath. I'm sure blue is a good color for you.

(And do you think that maybe we have figured out a lot about you already from the way you post and other clues? You aren't very good at spy games, are you??)