Do Juniors and Seniors Count Toward Quota?

GTrushee · #1 08-14-2007, 12:03 AM

I've seen something mentioned in the forums that juniors and seniors sometimes do not count toward quota in formal rush. Does anyone know if this is true for all NPC sororities, only some NPC sororities, or if it determined by the school's Panhellenic Office? I browsed through GT's Panhellenic Council's bylaws, but saw no mention of this.

UGAalum94 · #2 08-14-2007, 12:09 AM

It's a campus panhellenic decision, I believe.

GTrushee · #3 08-14-2007, 12:18 AM

Thanks AlphaGamUGAAlum, I suppose I'll give our Panhellinic Office a call and ask.

violetpretty · #4 08-14-2007, 12:24 AM

It is up to the particular campus Panhellenic. Most schools do count upperclassmen as part of quota. Some schools have a separate quota for upperclassmen. Others have "free" upperclassmen, meaning no limit.

I was actually thinking about juniors pledging the other day. I thought about why juniors are automatically cut from more competitive chapters; it's essentially because a chapter will have to replace her sooner than they would a freshman.

Suppose a "top tier" chapter took a junior (or a few) because they LIKE her and determine that she will be a committed member for 2 years. Two years later they have an extra spot open (or a few extra spots). Since this chapter is so desirable, they should have no problem filling those spots with PNMs that they want, be it during informal recruitment by inviting close friends of members, snapping a few extra girls, being eligible to be matched to more during formal recruitment, etc. I doubt that it would tarnish a "good" reputation by *gasp* participating in COB! If they are perceived as desirable, they will fill the spots!

Obviously, a pledge class full of juniors would be disastrous since it would leave tons of spots to fill. But when quota is 40+, what is the harm of taking quality upperclassmen? I understand that "top tier" chapters are the ones that have to make the heaviest cuts after the first round so often they look for a reason, any reason, to cut a PNM. It is just so deeply ingrained into the heads of most actives and alumnae that juniors=bad that we don't question why so much anymore.

UGAalum94 · #5 08-14-2007, 12:33 AM

A top chapter at a campus unreceptive to juniors will be over total most of the time. When they take quota in formal, they get to exceed total, but they don't get to take more than quota because people graduated. (For example, even though UGA total is around 175, many chapters have memberships of above 200. They are never going to get to COB, even if they want to. It's a question of how big they are basically limiting them to formal as their only way to gain members.)

And they will be limited to quota in the next formal rush with no extra snaps.

I agree with you that it shouldn't be such a big deal with huge quotas (and hey, if total is 175, would the group actually be wrecked to dip to 199?), but when they're so many great freshman PNMS, I think it's hard to pass up an outstanding frosh for a member who you know will only be around two years.

James · #6 08-14-2007, 12:37 AM

From what I read on here it seems that most chapters don't even think about it. If they are highly competitive they just automatically cut juniors during Formal after round 1.

So there is little way to know if they are quality. Therefore no decision to be made.

And since they will be at Total or over, there is no COB for them.

violetpretty · #7 08-14-2007, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

A top chapter at a campus unreceptive to juniors will be over total most of the time. When they take quota in formal, they get to exceed total, but they don't get to take more than quota because people graduated. (For example, even though UGA total is around 175, many chapters have memberships of above 200. They are never going to get to COB, even if they want to. It's a question of how big they are basically limiting them to formal as their only way to gain members.)

Ok, so they wouldn't have to COB. But a desirable chapter WILL make quota every year, and at most schools, if a chapter makes quota for four years in a row, it's over total. What makes a chapter "top tier" is the reputation, not the difference between having 189 and 200 members (although being at or above total is usually requisite).

UGAalum94 · #8 08-14-2007, 07:27 AM

I'm basically with you, but you still have to realize that to some degree the group is choosing the junior instead of an equally qualified first year, and that's the part that I think makes it hard.

If the junior were somehow more desirable, more groups might take a chance.

I don't know this for sure, but I think you also have to consider that most groups, even when really well regarded, see themselves in competition with other very strong groups. So although to you and me, 189 and 200 may not seem a significant difference, at that tier, it might be. I don't know.

I'd love to just see separate junior or senior quota. It would solve the problem and make juniors and seniors attractive to all groups.

violetpretty · #9 08-14-2007, 11:29 AM

I am not for the mandatory bidding of juniors/seniors by having a quota, but I think they should be free and not count towards quota. Since there will be a limited number that go through anyway, and not all will be of the quality a chapter is looking for, they can still bid a small handful if they like them.

UGAalum94 · #10 08-14-2007, 04:33 PM

At any normal campus, I think your idea is great, but at SEC recruitment if Jrs and Srs were free, there'd be some issues I think.

Basically, I think you'd see some dirty rushing of people to hold out until later when they could take as many as they want. I really do think the numbers of jrs and srs rushing might explode if there were no limit to how many top groups could pledge. (I think girls would be more likely to drop out of formal as frosh and sophs if they knew that the groups could take them without limits the next year.)

I hadn't really thought of a separate quota as pressure to bid them, but I guess it might be.

It seems like Alabama has a separate small quota, but that not all groups seem to pursue the jrs. even though they are "extra." I guess it could become like not making regular quota though.

AnchorAlumna · #11 08-15-2007, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

It seems like Alabama has a separate small quota, but that not all groups seem to pursue the jrs. even though they are "extra." I guess it could become like not making regular quota though.

You are correct. At least, that's what they did last year. Haven't heard about this year yet.

violetpretty · #12 08-15-2007, 12:41 AM

I guess there is no easy answer.