Playas till the day we die...

[marquise1911]

Yesterday at the Bar-B-Kue I was looking around and just watching. I noticed something that made me scratch my head. A lot of my older bruhs (35+) were still unmarried. As a matter of fact I could only count on one hand the older Nupes I know who are married. A lot of my bruhs have children (as evident by the droves of lil ones running a muck in dat park). A lot of my bruhs have women, but not wives (can't remember the last time I met a Silhouette). This felt like a glimpse into my future, as i am now back on da market with no aspirations of remarriage.

Ladies and Gents. What happened? I know this problem reaches far out of my fraternity. Black men period! I don't know many of my peers period who are in positive long term committed relationships or married. How will our people ever mend our family structure when we no longer value one of it's most essential ties.

[Maat]

good question...i wish i had an answer, but clearly i dont. i think these days we as a people just dont see the point of getting married...of establishing those long-term healthy relationships. shoot, some of us grow up without knowing what one of those really looks like, which can make it hard to enter into one on your own as you grow up.

i think what we need to do is take a good hard look at what society places value on and compare that to our own personal belief/value/moral system and re-evaluate who/what is REALLY driving our lives.

[1908Revelations]

Marquise, you picked a catching title for this thread. I looked at the title and was thinking *as if the outlook isn't already bleek*

I can honestly say that only one of my friends has a boyfriend and thier realationship is too new to bank on. All of my friends are single (including myself), or single in a 'limbo' type of situation where the guy acts as if he dosen't know what he wants. I think I would feel better about this if some of my peers were in a long-term committed relationship, then I would have hope. Now, don't get me wrong there are individuals who are in great relationships, but I was speaking for my peers as mentioned.

[marquise1911]

Damn. As a man I almost feel wierd voicing my opposition to the current plight of the black family structure. Our society applauds men who say "I'm into having sex I ain't into making love". But there has got to be more. I was looking at the AKA thread on adoption and thought how many of those adoption dreams would never be realized as they are "waiting on a hubby". By the time this happens for some, those children would have had children of their own. My brothers... we need to GET IT TOGETHER!!!

[OneTimeSBX]

i dont think it is the men's fault 100%. we, as women, need to learn how to gently put our foot down when it comes to relationships. we cant threaten you all into marrying us. we cant get knocked up and trap you. what we can do (but usually dont) is follow thru on our threats. i had to do that, didnt want to, but it got to that point with my now fiance. i had to explain to him that after 4 years, if there was not a good reason to stay shacked up, that i was leaving. i packed my stuff and left. i didnt want a ring, i didnt want a proposal, i wanted a PLAN. thats what i got!

maybe im wrong, but thats what most women want: an intention to do right by us!

[1908Revelations]

Originally Posted by OneTimeSBX

maybe im wrong, but thats what most women want: an intention to do right by us!

WOW!!!! If my phone tapped or what?!?!

[OneTimeSBX]

my mom always tells us: why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free...

i thought that was soo corny but it makes a world of sense now! there are some men who have hooked up pumps to their cows and are milking them dry!!

eta: women also need to carry themselves higher than they do. i know there is a shortage of men but you have to act as though you are the sh**, you are beautiful, and life is too short to waste time on someone who doesnt know what they want!

[dzdst796]

Being single is not a crime. As women we need to let the man know exactly what we want (if you know what you want). When I met my husband I told him from the door " I have enough friends. We can see if this is going to go somewhere or if that is not what you are looking for then bye-bye." We were married 3 years later.

I also believe that if the man is not ready to be in a committed relationship trying to force the issue with ultimatums is not the way to get him to be ready. You have to be willing to let the other person know exactly what you want. If you just want to date then say so. Fellas when she tries to be slick and slide in the "M" word, if you are not ready for that or if she is not the one you want to be with then let her know. Don't string her along. The same goes for you ladies. If you get a man and you know he is leaning towards the "M" word and you are not let him know.

One last thing there is NOTHING wrong with being single in your mid 30's. My sister is 42 single, a business owner, is doing her thing and is HAPPY. She is not going to get married because EVERYONE else thinks she should be. She will do it when she wants to if ever.

[Still BLUTANG]

Originally Posted by OneTimeSBX

...i know there is a shortage of men...

this is a lie that we've got to stop believing. there is NO shortage of "good black men" or whatever color you want them to be. i know a lot of good ones, the problem exists because these good guys just aren't marriage-minded.

back in the day men knew women were a "prize" to be won, if that's not too much of a misogynist statement. Men knew they had to work to get a good woman. however, roles have switched. Now, the brothers who have it together KNOW they are in demand, and thus, they can "play" longer and think about marriage later than ever.

[OneTimeSBX]

Originally Posted by Still BLUTANG

this is a lie that we've got to stop believing. there is NO shortage of "good black men" or whatever color you want them to be. i know a lot of good ones, the problem exists because these good guys just aren't marriage-minded.

oh i know there isnt a shortage of good men, we just outnumber them quite a bit , and between the jailbirds, lunatics, and down low guys, we have to be careful. you are exactly right, men know that women assume there "arent any good guys left" (which is a lie, i have 2 single, successful, professional uncles who have never married and are in their 40's...) and they run with it.

men who settle down (granted she isnt a crazed drama queen) are healthier, happier people. im not saying MARRIAGE because that is a dirty word for some guys, but they have the advantage. its the few losers who play the field like they are getting paid for it, that ruin it for the good guys and they have to deal with us women with our guards up.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by marquise1911

Ladies and Gents. What happened? I know this problem reaches far out of my fraternity. Black men period! I don't know many of my peers period who are in positive long term committed relationships or married. How will our people ever mend our family structure when we no longer value one of it's most essential ties.

Simply put Nupe, is the fact that the incentive for men to get married has been greatly reduced, for a multitude of reasons. In 2007, a man has a lot to lose by marrying or even committing to the wrong woman. He must choose wisely. btw, yes there are an abundance of good women out there, but you have to take your time in selecting one.

Hope this helps.

[DSTKellie]

Your thoughts....



Monday, March 5, 2007
Dating for Black Women

The quickest way to start a heated debate amongst Black people is to talk about the state of Black relationships. All of the feelings of insecurity, betrayal, hate, and despair rise to the surface, and most would rather not discuss it for fear of being blamed for the issues that we face. Both are angry and have some very strong opinions about the others' behavior. While I do understand that there are issues on both sides of the sexes, I can only sympathize with the fairer one, being female myself. I acknowledge that both men and women have had some difficult and painful relationship experiences and do recognize that both are to blame for our sad state of affairs. With that being said, I would love to hear opinions from others concerning this topic, and welcome all responses.

From what I hear, we all have some issues with our gender counterparts. Black women are disgusted with they way Black men have developed a strong attraction to non-Black women. They are disgusted with being thought of as bitches, moody, or too strong when they achieve a certain level of success. They are disgusted with the lack of decent, eligible brothers. A single, educated, independent woman feels that it is nearly impossible to find the same in a Black man. They feel that since Black men know they are a commodity, they use that to cheat, lie, and mistreat their women because they know she'll never leave them. Black women feel that they are thought of as sexually repressed because they do not engage in sexually deviant behaviors that many of the non-Black women do. Black women feel that Black men date and marry white women because they are status symbols and make Black men feel more successful. They feel neglected, rejected, and abandon by Black men, and consistently feel attacked when they express these emotions.

Throughout the history of this country, Black women have always been the lowest on the totem pole. We are taught to hate ourselves from a very young age. Our body types are not symbols of beauty, from the curves of our hips to the texture of our hair, we are underrepresented in the media, in the workplace, and even on college campuses. We arrive to college realizing that most of the eligible brothers are dating and sleeping with white women because they have been taught to hate us too. Once we graduate from college with our high priced degrees, that we had to work ridiculously hard to achieve, we are thrown into the workforce. This is where we are further humiliated.

We have to be stronger, smarter, and more cunning to even be recognized as good. As we begin to achieve our success, we have to ignore the rude side comments, look past the office functions and parties that were definitely not meant for us, and contend with all the questions about our hair, way of life, and my favorite, "why don't you hang out with us on the weekends." Any sign of resistance, annoyance, or challenge that we show is cause for us to hear the angry black woman comments, not just from non-Blacks, but from Black males as well. We are the most misunderstood, misrepresented, and mistreated group in the United States. Now after we have spent 8 or more hours with the fake smiles of insincerity, we come home to either an empty home or a house full of kids we're raising by ourselves. And the sad part is, a lot of married women are raising kids by themselves.

So now you may ask, well just how bad is it for a single, educated, financially independent woman. Oh my friends, it's really bad. If pick at random 100 black men over the age of 18, 4 are in prison, 15 have HIV, 29 are gay, 93 have not completed a four-year degree, 43 are married, 65 have been married more than once, 75 of them have children, and 90 of them have an income of $19,000 or below.

I will not comment at length about the statistics because I think they speak for themselves. Go to United States Department of Labor's website to see more statistics that are equally as troubling.

Now I already know some of the comments or opinions I'm going to get. "Black men have it rough too," "Black women don't do a good job making us feel like men." "Black women do us dirty too." "Black women don't want a good man". Yes the responses are endless. I'm not negating the fact that maybe some of these are true. I think it's important to recognize that both groups have experienced some very painful stuff. I realize that nobody is perfect. However what I find to be typical is that Black women are aware of the struggles that our men are faced with, and are very willing to put up with a whole lot of mess just to be with a Black man. On the flip side, they are not given the same consideration. Black men are three times more likely to marry outside of their race than Black women. What this tells me is that despite the lack of options and despite being abused and misused, Black women are loyal, and would rather be single than marry outside of their race. However, because we are not the standard of beauty, white men don't want to marry Black women either.

So let's look at how this plays out. From an early age we realize that we are not wanted by the media. Look at baby doll commercials, white Barbie choices compared to black barbie choices. We rarely see positive, normal Black women on very popular T.V. shows, i.e. Desperate Housewives, Friends, Seinfeld, etc. The first time a Black actress wins an Academy Award, she plays a woman called "Mammy" in a movie that displays us as property. Then the first time a Black actress wins for best actress, its for a role in which she has disgusting sex with an even more disgusting white man.

In college we quickly realize that our skin is too dark and morals too high to attract the athletes, and then after subtracting the athletes, you're not left with much except the 4 Black men in the fraternity who date all of the 40 Black women in the sororities. Subtract those four, and you're left with the 2 "roommates" who look at each other more than any woman, white or black. That leaves you with about 5 brothers. Three of which have been there since the voting age was moved to 18, and they still have two years until graduation. Of the other two, one doesn't bathe, wear deodorant, or cut his toenails because he's "earthy" and refuses to buy into the white man's idea of beauty. (and he wears Birkenstocks) Oh but the one left is gorgeous, speaks well, a pre-law major, and president of every Black student organization. He is charming, dresses well, and everyone speaks highly of him. The problem: All the other 235 Black women on campus want him, and worse than that, he has a girlfriend back home who he is solely dedicated to and will marry upon graduation. However you don't worry, once you graduate, there will be a plethora of decent, eligible Black men...NOT!!!

So you relocate for that fabulous job you landed after hours of studying and numerous internships. Or maybe you go on to graduate school. Either way you are in for a rude awakening. If you thought Black men were scarce in undergrad, just wait until to get to corporate America or graduate school. Your chance of meeting them there are slim to nil.

So what do we do? To be honest I don't have an answer. I am, however, disheartened at the fact that after everything we have gone through being citizens in a country that despises us, we can't seem to work together for our mutual success. I am not against interracial dating or marriage. I believe that you should marry anyone you want to. However my concerns are the reasons for eliminating people of your own race based on these extremely biased attitudes and beliefs. I am concerned with this attitude of self hatred or the way we define one another. I am concerned with a generation of Black men who, regardless of who they choose to be with, insult, degrade, demean, and debase Black women even though a Black woman gave them life. I am concerned for my Black sisters who continue to struggle with self-hatred, self-loathing, manic depression, single parenting, and low self-esteem, because they don't receive any affirmation, congratulations, support, or recognition from any part of their lives. I am concerned for my sisters who always have to look out for everyone, but no one is looking out for them. I am concerned for my sisters and brothers who can't come together and encourage, uplift, and support one another. I'm concerned for the next generation of Black children who will be born into a world that already thinks of them as inferior, but won't have the support they need to overcome the negative labels and stereotypes that come from just having dark skin.

My hope is that my sons and daughters live in a better world than I do, but in order to do that, I have to make it better, and for me to make it better, I have to be better. So my friends concentrate on being better, so we can make it better.

[OneTimeSBX]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

So now you may ask, well just how bad is it for a single, educated, financially independent woman. Oh my friends, it's really bad. If pick at random 100 black men over the age of 18, 4 are in prison, 15 have HIV, 29 are gay, 93 have not completed a four-year degree, 43 are married, 65 have been married more than once, 75 of them have children, and 90 of them have an income of $19,000 or below.

you know, i wonder if the statistics for other races are close to ours...

lets face it, i hate to resource to that old standby "men are all the same", but bad men are all the same, and the good ones are too! i know both white and latina girlfriends of mine who are going thru the SAME THING...deadbeat fathers, mile-long rap sheets, men unwilling to be faithful...bad men are bad men.

[OOhsoflyDELTA#9]

Originally Posted by OneTimeSBX

maybe im wrong, but thats what most women want: an intention to do right by us!

LIVED IT!!!!! (we are (((((((((((here)))))))))))))))) 1908Revelations)

Marquise1911, there are good successful men out there who want a family and everything that comes with it....I'm dating one and he happens to be your frat....I kissed a couple of frogs but I may have finally found my prince...

to address your question, I do believe we as women don't demand the men in our lives to step up to the plate in relationships....we often buy into that "piece of man" is better then no man syndrome.....we have to demand and expect better...I had to realize I couldn't and shouldn't want to raise a grown a$$ man....never again....but hopefully I'm done with all that now...

[357Nupe]

I wanted to quote a bunch of stuff on this topic, but I thought I will just say my peace.

I am a married man (12 years 12/10/94), with quite a few married friends, most are happy or not mad enough to leave. This thread is a point of conversation for us quite often, from why we got married to do we want to stay married.

Our answers can be summed up as follows:

We all found our wives, persued our wives, caught (clubbed over the head, talked that good ish, etc..) our wives, and married our wives. We also found that none of us had been pressured or made to set a timeline or any other buzzword women use to say are you going to marry me anytime soon or where is this relationship going.

Now I know my next statement is going to start something but here goes, It is not a woman's place(role) to tell a men she is ready to be married, now a woman can leave if she feels the relationship is going nowhere but a man will ask when he knows the relationship is ready for that step. With that said every woman should have standards in her head and if he is not up to those standards, LEAVE HIM.

If you look at how marriage was setup women were not put in the finding role but in the accepting role. If he meets your standards you accept him if not dump him. I luckly met the extremely high standards my wife had and has and she accepted me.

In conclusion when men and women understand their roles in relationships the outcome is a lot clearer and easier to obtain. We as men have forgotten our place and ladies you have decided since we can't figure it out you will take over, and sorry to say it does not work. Thats just my thoughts I could be wrong but my 12 happy years say I may be on the right track.