drinking in letters

USFSDTAlum · #1 01-28-2001, 01:27 AM

I know we have gone over the thread with do you feel it is appropriate to drink/ smoke/ etc. in letters or whatever. But how do you feel about it in reference to an outdoor festival and possible rush repercutions. Let me give you some background. I'm in Tampa and for all of you who aren't under a rock, we have the SuperBowl here this weekend. One local annual outdoor party is Gasparilla, which is an all day parade to celebrate some pirate and the founding of Tampa or some business like this. And since the SuperBowl was in town they moved it up to make more money from the event (its normally held later in feb.) Anyway, back to my point. During the day at Gasparilla, the police do not enforce the no drinking in public law, and everyone pretty much is strolling around getting pretty messed up. One fraternity in particular (not sure if from my school or another chapter in the city) all had letters on and were smashed, shouting at girls to "show their T*ts", falling over, loud, rowdy the whole nine yards. So, I am watching these guys and I am thinking..So, if I was a possible rushee or thinking about going greek, would I really want these to be my brothers who are totally disrespectful lushes? Not to mention how they are just furthering the "frat boy" stereotype as it is. What do you all think about this in conjunction with possible backlash when it comes to rush?

Billy Optimist · #2 01-28-2001, 04:43 AM

Umm....
You are seeing this behavior through a girls perspective, so let me offer up some testosterone. It might affect some rushee's opinons negatively. On the other hand, it might appeal to us young studs. You never know.

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Just because and idea is stupid doesn't mean it won't work.

AOX81 · #3 01-28-2001, 03:28 PM

We are allowed to go to a bar with our letters on but the minute we start drinking the letters have to come off. The only time that we are allowed to drink with our letters on is if we are having a closed social function with another organization or if it is on a party t-shirt.

matthewg · #4 01-28-2001, 04:58 PM

Can somebody please explain this double standard of sometimes drinking in letters and sometimes not to me as a naive fraternity member from Europe.
For example, how does it show a lack of respect for your organization? Shouldn't you be totally anti-alcoholic then and not only in public?? I know, it is mean, but that's the question you would want to ask yourselves wouldn't you?
Where does this overly intense political correctness in the past years came from. Don't you sometimes want to revolt against it or is it just a huge social pressure inflicted upon you by the public
(who is the public?)?
Just wondering.....

[This message has been edited by matthewg (edited January 28, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by matthewg (edited January 28, 2001).]

Allie_XO · #5 01-28-2001, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by matthewg:
Can somebody please explain this double standard of sometimes drinking in letters and sometimes not to me as a naive fraternity member from Europe.
For example, how does it show a lack of respect for your organization? Shouldn't you be totally anti-alcoholic then and not only in public?? I know I am mean but that's the question you would want to ask yourselves wouldn't you?
Where does this overly intense political correctness in the past years have come from. Don't you sometimes want to revolt against it or is it just a huge social pressure inflicted upon you by the public
(who is the public?)?
Just wondering.....

Kids in the USA are usually not taught to drink responsibly. Most parents FORBID alcohol so when kids get to college (and out from under their parent's domination) they tend to go overboard. Getting slap-a$$-drunk and throwing up in the middle of the dance floor happens much more than it should... I'm sure everyone would agree. Now certainly, Greeks are not the primary trouble makers, but the idea is that IF someone were to get that drunk, it would be a bad reflection on their GLO if they were wearing their letters. I really don't think anyone would say anything if I were to have a glass of wine at dinner while wearing my lavalier, but clubbing in my letters are definately out of the question. Hope that helps!

Allie

kdgirlie · #6 01-29-2001, 01:05 AM

It really bothers me to see people drinking in their letters. Not because of rush infractions, but because it shows disrespect to your group. I was at a party last night, and I know girls in the other sororities here, but it disappointed me to see them in their letters.

SoCalGirl · #7 01-29-2001, 01:15 AM

I completely agree w/ the car example. I refuse to put my letters on my car not only because I'd then feel like I should always drive like a lil old lady but also because then I'd have to keep it sparkling clean! I want to bust out a razor blade when I see letters on filthy cars.

Would you wear your letters if you looked grungy? Hell NO!

I don't know about other glos but mine definitely states that when we wear our letters we have to look "nice". No rolling out of bed and throwing on your party t-shirt. Even when I go to the gym in an old event t-shirt I make sure to not look gross.

matthewg · #8 01-29-2001, 11:42 AM

Ok, ok, all nice and fine - we also have certain paraphernalia we are not supposed to wear in certain bars and clubs, ok. I see that point.

I don't exactly see the point with a sticker on the car because I expect the people that surround me to be able to acknowledge the difference between my personal way of driving and the principles of my fraternity - these two have nothing in common and if people start making up prejudices that way, then you cannot really give in on that, can you. I mean, get real - everybody has to take responsibility for his own actions and if I drive like hell it is not my fraternities fault.

And then, there is still this other question that no one answered so far:
Where has this PC-ness come from and don't you hate it? I mean, it is so restrictive - plus who decides what is right or wrong? To give you an example: It is wrong to drink in letters, out of a sudden the same people think that it is also wrong to drink a Coke in letters - what will you do? Stop drinking soda/pop in letters? When will that stupidity stop?

[This message has been edited by matthewg (edited January 29, 2001).]

USFSDTAlum · #9 01-29-2001, 12:49 PM

Matthew--the difference is is that excessive consumption of Coke doesn't cause you to act like a jackass, forget large portions of an evening, engage in risky sexual behavior, and generally make yourself seem like a pain in the butt. It's not a group of people I am trying to impress by not getting loaded in my letters, it is respect for the founders of my org. who belived that these letters ideally meant more then some drunk college girls having a good time. I know I still represent my org when I am not wearing letters, but it is not as in your face as when you have letters on. The general public has no clue that you are greek unless you are wearing something with letters on it. Also the general public doesn't know the greek alphabet so to them when you are drunk in your letters, its those fraternity boys, not the boys from alpha beta gamma etc.
But back to the original question, do you all feel that this effects the numbers guys are taking in recruitment?

shadokat · #10 01-29-2001, 02:04 PM

Our national has a clause in our alcohol policy that does not allow us to drink and wear letters. You are not allowed to wear your letters to mixers, parties or bars, or really anywhere in which alcohol is present. I've seen it happen, and I don't agree with it. Some people can't handle their alcohol, and shouldn't be allowed to parade around in their letters and make a fool of themselves while representing their organization. It just looks bad for the group.

Billy Optimist · #11 01-30-2001, 01:09 AM

USF Student--

But doesn't being drunk anytime make you act like that? Shouldn't you want to live up to the ideals of your founders whether or not you are wearing letters?

USFSDTAlum · #12 01-30-2001, 01:26 AM

Hey Billy-
I reread my post and it does sound as if i am saying that it is OK to get plastered as long as you are not wearing letters, and I am SO sorry, because that is not what I was trying to say at all. My point towards the end was that when you are drunk in letters you reflect on greek life as a whole because most people can't tell one group from another just based on looking at letters. I wasn't saying that as long as you aren't in letters go and get drunk. However at the same time, members shouldn't have to live a life of teetotaling either. Both greeks and non greeks get drunk every weekend in record numbers, you should just take care to remember as you are dancing on the bar contemplating taking your shirt off or whatever (i know this is a crazy example) that you are representing your organization. Now that I am a sister I double think my actions all the time, because I know when I go out I am not only representing myself but 80 other girls.

matthewg · #13 01-30-2001, 01:45 AM

Hi USFstudent,
I perfectly follow you on what you said, esp. in that second statement. And, sure, I know that you don't get drunk when drinking Coke - I was just trying to make a point that not only you guys in America suffer from, but we here in Europe, too: Increasing PC. We are also blamed for drinking too heavily even though non greeks get drunk equally or more. The question is can we do something about it by always giving in to PC pressure or do we have to fight it at some point because it get's too ridiculous.

To answer your question, and maybe it is interesting for you to get the viewpoint from a bystander following this board:
I don't think that knowing about drinking in fraternities or sororities influences people more negatively than the sometimes overt superficial way of judging people, esp. on the basis of clothing, beauty and so on that is apparent on this board (cf: "look" in the forum "rush"). That could leave a lot of people with the bad aftertaste: "ok, the chapter AYZ is not drinking and so on, but they are extremely arrogant and superficial". I don't think that is much better than the image of a drunken bunch.

[This message has been edited by matthewg (edited January 29, 2001).]

Billy Optimist · #14 01-30-2001, 01:51 AM

USFstudent, Matthew, and all reading-
Ok now I understand you better. I think that getting totally plastered everyweekend, or maybe more, is wrong. I also think that teetotalting 100% of the time is wrong too. I think both extremes are dangerous and can lead to a bad cycle of okay no drinking, and then you finally give in and get *&%$faced and then the next day swearing it off and then it just keeps going around, instead of happy medium buzz.

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Once in everytime, you'll know what life is. Oh I need you, you need me, oh my darling, don't you see? The Young Ones. Darling we're The Young Ones. The Young Ones. Shouldn't be afraid! To live. To love. There's a song to be sung. 'Cause we may not be The Young Ones for very long!!!