Getting rid of collegians because they don't fit the image?

#1 12-07-2006, 12:50 AM

For the record, the author of this post is a fraternity alumnus and is writing about a sorority at DePauw:

http://community.livejournal.com/greek_life/332248.html

I know of sorority chapters closing and reorganizing, but telling all but 12 members to leave because they don't fit the image? Is this even normal and possible?

Thoughts?

macallan25 · #2 12-07-2006, 01:05 AM

I've never heard of Nationals booting out fraternity members because they didn't "look" right......but I have heard of Nationals conducting member reviews after a chapter got in trouble for hazing or something else that they could get into trouble for. KA Nationals held a membership review at Texas Tech after they go caught hazing and kicked out some members, made other members automatic alumni, and made some alumni in bad standing. Then they initiated all the pledges, had an election, and filled the office positions..... and allowed them to stay on campus.

jon1856 · #3 12-07-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

I've never heard of Nationals booting out fraternity members because they didn't "look" right......but I have heard of Nationals conducting member reviews after a chapter got in trouble for hazing or something else that they could get into trouble for. KA Nationals held a membership review at Texas Tech after they go caught hazing and kicked out some members, made other members automatic alumni, and made some alumni in bad standing. Then they initiated all the pledges, had an election, and filled the office positions..... and allowed them to stay on campus.

I have to agree with your thoughts on this. OP's link just does not ring right. The links writer may not have all the facts or has an edge to grind perhaps.

But then again, truth can be strange.

LPIDelta · #4 12-07-2006, 01:22 AM

I think this happens in sororities when a group consistently has issues with recruiting and retaining members.....image is not just how women look, but also how they act and, in the case of sororities, how they represent the values of the organization. From what I understand, grades are considered, involvement in other organizations is considered, as is ability and willingness to recruit the kinds of members that will sustain a chapter.

Membership review, at least from what I have seen, frequently comes about when the women in the chapter are not having or offering a quality experience.

It is a means to an end...and the hope is that the end is a stronger, thriving chapter.

#5 12-07-2006, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon1856

I have to agree with your thoughts on this. OP's link just does not ring right. The links writer may not have all the facts or has an edge to grind perhaps.

But then again, truth can be strange.

If you go to that link, you'll see that there's a deleted post. It was from me, basically challenging what this guy wrote. I took it down because the tone of my comment probably would have started a flame war, and I really wasn't in the mood for that, believe it or not.

I wanted to call BS right away. I've seen chapters reorganize for various reasons, but not because their HQ thought their members didn't "fit the mold". If anyone at/from DePauw can shed some light on this, it'd be nice. I figure he posted what he did because he's looking out for his friends' best interests, but his facts just don't add up and he's making the sorority's HQ look bad. Being that there are only 7 sororities at DePauw, I'm sure it won't be that hard to figure out who he's talking about.

AGDee · #6 12-07-2006, 05:58 AM

I think it would depend on how you would define "fitting the mold". If they're posting pics of the chapter drinking on facebook, engaging in hazing, not making grades repeatedly, doing drugs in the house (or selling them out of the house), etc.. it could be said that they don't "fit the mold". I have seen chapters of women being required to sign a recommitment form which says that they will follow the policies and rules and uphold the standards of the fraternity in order to remain in good standing. If some women chose not to sign something like that, it could look like only a select few were allowed to remain in the chapter. One thing I can guarantee... the full story is not known by anybody except those chapter members and their Headquarters, so speculation on why something like that occurred is fruitless. The real story isn't going to posted on a message board.

#7 12-07-2006, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

One thing I can guarantee... the full story is not known by anybody except those chapter members and their Headquarters, so speculation on why something like that occurred is fruitless. The real story isn't going to posted on a message board.

That's what I was thinking.

I was looking at their Greek Life website and deferred recruitment for them starts next month.

Looks like it might be an uphill battle for the remaining members.

kddani · #8 12-07-2006, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTW

I wanted to call BS right away. I've seen chapters reorganize for various reasons, but not because their HQ thought their members didn't "fit the mold". If anyone at/from DePauw can shed some light on this, it'd be nice. I figure he posted what he did because he'looking out for his friends' best interests, but his facts just don't add up and he's making the sorority's HQ look bad. Being that there are only 7 sororities at DePauw, I'm sure it won't be that hard to figure out who he's talking about.

I agree with your gut. I had a gut reaction to both that post and the SK one that they're a member crying foul and trying to portray their chapter as victims to the big, bad HQ. But, like usually happens, I somehow think we're not being told everything.

And being that this is coming from some fraternity guy who is not even on campus anymore- he surely does not have all the information. He's passing on hearsay and probably has some false information. We all know how rumors fly when a chapter is going through difficulty

LaneSig · #9 12-07-2006, 09:42 AM

I realize that this isn't the same exact thing, but there have been sororities that have put all of the members on alumn status and then started over again the next semester. Isn't the HQ/National sending a message that the current members of the chapter aren't presenting an image that they want?

Xylochick216 · #10 12-07-2006, 09:44 AM

A sorority on my campus was reorganized a few years ago after several incidents. Their HQ came in and interviewed all of the girs. From my understanding, most of the seniors and juniors were given alumna status because they had been the biggest part of the problem. They were small for a year or two, but they're thriving now and they have much fewer problems. It turned out to be a good thing for them.

Little E · #11 12-07-2006, 10:05 AM

I totally agree his post is missing something, but perhaps these 'bad seeds' were not entirely thrilled at being removed from active status and so they were told by HQ whatevery you tell people when you're giving them the boot and then their anger translated into "National says were not the right image" Angry girls have a tendency to be told one thing and somehow through our brains we can make it something totally different - usually something more dramatic and to our benefit. (I don't mean this to sound so disparaging, but I'm not sure how else to say it.)

AlexMack · #12 12-07-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little E

I totally agree his post is missing something, but perhaps these 'bad seeds' were not entirely thrilled at being removed from active status and so they were told by HQ whatevery you tell people when you're giving them the boot and then their anger translated into "National says were not the right image" Angry girls have a tendency to be told one thing and somehow through our brains we can make it something totally different - usually something more dramatic and to our benefit. (I don't mean this to sound so disparaging, but I'm not sure how else to say it.)

No, that's how I interpreted it. In their minds, they're getting thrown out because they don't fit the image. God knows why they're actually being asked to leave.

_Lisa_ · #13 12-07-2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by centaur532

No, that's how I interpreted it. In their minds, they're getting thrown out because they don't fit the image. God knows why they're actually being asked to leave.

Exactly! Like not meeting the minimum standards, or consistently taking in much less than quota, or not meeting the chapter GPA requirements for several semesters in a row.

33girl · #14 12-07-2006, 10:47 AM

Ok, at a place like DePauw, why would they leave those 12 there to do all the work, especially when they're seniors and especially since there's an NPC rule that they can take everyone out and still keep their spot for a year - right?

I think if I was those 12 seniors I would have told the nationals to go shit in their hat, unless they completely hated the rest of the chapter.

As far as not taking quota, not reaching standards, GPA etc - that is a CHAPTER issue. If the CHAPTER hasn't met quota since 1973, they should close the CHAPTER, not kick individual women out. You don't say that your chapter hasn't done a, b, and c, and then leave 12 girls there, especially if they are the girls who have been there the longest and therefore had the most time to remedy the issues.

Do I think a national will remove girls just because they don't fit the "image" if the chapter's numbers are high and everything else (risk mgmt, $$ etc) is OK? No. Do I think a national will remove women or close a chapter if they don't fit the image AND their numbers are low or the chapter has other issues? Definitely. Do I think a national will let the same sort of RM or treasury issues slide if the chapter is over total and all the girls are drop dead gorgeous and it's the most popular sorority on campus? Definitely.

WVU alpha phi · #15 12-07-2006, 11:14 AM

My chapter had a hazing incident occur two years ago when we were already on probation.. Nationals came in, individually interviewed every girl in the chapter, held meeting with the entire chapter, kept an ELC in our house for 6 weeks, things like that.. the end result: our president took early alumni status (it was either that or termination), our social was terminated, and 2 girls quit on their own. Not once did I get the impression that Nationals was trying to "clean out" girls who didn't "fit the mold." From a chapter of 90, only two girls were forced to be early alum or terminated, and it was only those two because they were mainly the ones who "put us at risk".