Hazing Question (and a note for the PIKE from MSU)

MomKat · #1 09-24-2005, 05:29 PM

Can you tell me what PIKE'S philosophy is regarding hazing?
I am a mom, not a spy, and concerned about my son, a pledge.
I have heard many different stories about hazing. Most of it leads me to believe it still goes on, not as harsh as years prior, but its still happens and fraternities hope they don't get caught.

On another note- to the PIKE from Memphis State (now U of M). In the late 1970's PIKE was BIG at MSU. I lived in the apartments across the street from the PIKE house and knew many of them very well. They were a great bunch of guys.

Thanks for the answer to my hazing ?,

Kat

Firehouse · #2 09-25-2005, 03:09 PM

Your perception is generally accurate. Hazing is against the law in some states, and hazing is forbidden on all campuses and by all national fraternities. Pike doesn't just pay lip service - they will bounce a chapter for hazing, but they'd rather work with the chapter and get it straightened out instead of kicking them out.
If you think your son is being hazed, then you should report it, but please, report it to Pike national rather than the campus administration or the campus cops. If the university recieves a complaint, then they're bound to act on it and the chapter will be thrown out. You can say, "I don't want to cause trouble, I just want someone to know", but trouble will be caused because the schools are legally bound to do it.
If you call Memphis, the chapter will likely be worked with and disciplined internally, and allowed to continue to operate, perhaps without some members.
Two things to keep in mind:

1) There is a difference between boys roughhousing, and hazing. As a mom, you may not be able to tell the difference, but your son can.

2) Before you take any action, check with your son. Nobody likes a snitch. If there is hazing and it is serious, then it is dangerous and must be reported. If it's just boys "playing grabass" that's something that probably can be handled internally.

If you need to call Pike national, call 901-748-1868. Ask to speak to anyone there. Choose any line.
Pike is a great natinal fraternity, highly respected. Your son is fortunate to be a member.

MomKat · #3 09-25-2005, 09:16 PM

Thank you for the reply Firehouse.

My son hasn't told me anything and hasn't mentioned hazing. I was concerned because I do remember (when I was in college a long time ago) the kinds of things fraternity pledges were often made to do! Granted, not all fraternities in the 1970's were extreme with hazing, but it wasn't unusual to hear the stories about what pledges had to go through to join a fraternity. All of you know what I'm talking about.

If my son did tell me of hazing activities, I would call the office number you gave in your reply.

I have no reason to believe hazing is going on with the Pike's but as a mom, the possibility crosses your mind. A fraternity at a nearby university is facing a serious court case for possible hazing that left a pledge with brain damage. His parents are suing the fraternity and who could blame them? This is serious business.

Again thank you. I'm glad my son is going to be a PIKE.

Kat

Firehouse · #4 09-25-2005, 09:37 PM

Kat, why don't you PM me and tell me the name of the university. I'm a former national board member of Pike, and I know all those fellows up there. I can make a discrete inquirey.

MomKat · #5 09-28-2005, 08:40 PM

You have a PM, thanks.

FratAmerica · #6 10-17-2005, 09:21 PM

MomKat,

Pi Kappa Alpha surely has their own policy prohibiting hazing - every fraternity does. My experience has been that "today's hazing" does not include the physical wrongs of yesteryear (e.g. paddling), but more so focuses on ridiculousness (e.g. running errands for active members). That's not to say that it is right, but it also means that Greeks have come a long way.

In terms of what to do about hazing... it is illegal and should be reported to the university, to the national organization and to the police if necessary. If your child is worred about their personal safety, they should quit the pledge class immediately.

MOLadybug · #7 10-19-2005, 09:49 AM

There is no need to report anything to Pike Executive Office; As we were told they have no control over their chapters and can't do anything for you. My son was hazed at William Wood U. and when he stood up to his "brothers" in the chapter they kicked him out. It wasn't a major hazing event, they wanted him to camp out in the elements in a barn lot filled with cow manuer to "bond" with his pledge brothers. Really sounds like a bonding event to me. I am sorry Pike lacks control over their chapters.

FratAmerica · #8 10-21-2005, 12:13 PM

Dear MOLadyBug,

Of course Pike's HQ doesn't have any "control" over their chapters. None of the nationals "controls" their chapters. Chapters don't "control" their members. Heck, there isn't even a school out there that is able to "control" its students! If you're looking for your kid to be in a "controlled" environment, you should keep him at home!

At the end of the day, all that the nationals are able to do is to give a chapter a charter or not. Same with a school, at best they can only admit or expel your kid - they can't make him study or go to church on Sunday.

I don't know what your son was involved in, but also consider that it's a two-way street. If your son was involved in something he didn't like, he should have left and/or reported it to the proper authorities. I think it's a cop-out when kids cry about being hazed, but don't take a stand when it happens - or refuse to be involved.

If your kid's chapter was hazing him then the school and national has a responsibility to respond (I think). That doesn't though mean that they'll shut down the chapter, or that you're kid can go back in the group. We're all dealing with 18-22 year olds. Yes, that's the frustrating part... but that's also what it's all about - giving those kids a chance to grow up, make mistakes, learn from them and become men.

Control is an illusion.

MOLadybug · #9 10-21-2005, 01:50 PM

National GLO's do have control over their chapters. That is why charters are taken or probation is enforced for actions by chapters and members. National organizations proclaim a set of standards for their members to live up to. Pike has a great history and a great set of expectations. I have dealt with one such member who lives what Pike proclaims in their heritage and standards. No you can't keep people from being stupid and doing things that are wrong! But you can hold them accountable for their actions. I have always held my son accountable for his actions. That is why he has the respect of his elders, peers and teachers. My GLO holds our members to a set of standards and we take action when those standards aren't upheld. Pike EO has told us to file criminal charges against your brothers; We were trying to keep from doing that because we hate to see anyone's life ruined for actions that were stupid. We have no problem doing what we need to do. We are going thru the channels to give everyone involved the chance to take care of the situation internally at the GLO level or University level. We have talked with the chapter president and have done some investigation to get both sides of the situation. I wish the chapter had done the same but they did not! My son wants no part of Pike, so that is not an issue to worry about. We don't necessarily want the chapter closed; We just want them held accountable for their mistakes and given that chance you talk about in which they can learn from their mistakes and become a better chapter. I wonder why all Pike members don't want their members to live up to the standards that has made Pike strong all of these years.

FratAmerica · #10 10-21-2005, 02:49 PM

MoLadyBug,

We obviously have a disconnect here.

Part of this may be because you can't compare womens and mens groups. They are totally different animals.

The other part seems to be due to what I believe is your misunderstanding of "control". Holding people accountable, does not mean that those people are being controlled! Nationals can pull a chapter's charter after they do something - but they can't control the behavior that might lead to problems. All nationals can do is educate, advertise expectations and respond. I don't think any national tries to monitor its members every move - and if they did, that wouldn't be a fraternity anymore - it would be a corporate franchise or the military.

Also, why are you hesitant to file criminal charges but are comfortable with demanding action from the HQ? All the HQ can do is respond. And with what... probation? If whatever happened to your kid is bad enough, call the cops! You don't want to "ruin an individuals life", but you want an entire chapter to be punished? I don't understand that.

And here's the other thing... maybe everything IS handeled - have you thought of that? I mean, it sounds like your kid had a falling out with the chapter. I can't believe the camping trip you're describing was that freakin' traumatic. So he didn't get along with the chapter - so what? Hey - maybe the chapter is full of a bunch of nerds... or maybe they feel your son is a nerd. So there is not a fit there - so what? It's over a done with. Do you expect HQ to ride into town and scream and yell at the entire chapter because a kid didn't like their campout?

Why don't you let your kid handle this situation on his own? I don't understand why his mom is making all these decisions. I aassume the kid is 18 or older. When do you start letting him live his own life?

I'm sure PKA wants their chapters and members to live up to standards. Where you and PKA HQ may differ is that you want a chapter punished or members "held accountable" because you didn't like your kid (and your only "evidence" of problems is a freakin' campout!).

Let him live his own life. Have him investigage, let him file charges, have him confront the chapter, or let him move on.

MOLadybug · #11 10-21-2005, 04:00 PM

Obvious this discussion is over. You are assuming things that you have no knowledge of. You have no way of knowing what my son is doing and not doing. I am quite sure if you had been treated like my son you would be upset also. I am sure the ones that love you would be upset. You have missed the issue of respect for each other and the persons you deal with in life. You have missed the issue of lack of brotherhood and compassion;

You are correct mens and womens glo's are very different. I have been involved with both for many years. I know several men's groups that would have handle it very differently.

I wish you well; I hope you are always treated with respect and compassion when dealing with confrontational situations.

scotty K · #12 10-24-2005, 12:01 PM

I want to go on record with this statment. I know Nationals will say that Hazing does not exist and they have squashed it with the siging of the Anti Hazing Statement.

I was a pledge of Pi Kappa Alpha. I de Pledged. I did not think that being forced to humilate myself was not bonding. Drinking until you puke is not part of ritual. I am older than 21(23) I will not be apart of any type of program that is all about getting drunk and forcing others to do the same.

Other than that, I had a good time with pledging.

BobbyTheDon · #13 10-24-2005, 01:17 PM

I am not sure whether or not you are for real or not, but if you are I'm sorry about your experience with pledging. Unfortunately, there is a possibility out there that some chapters still have some form of hazing. It is unfortunate and our nationals does not condone it in any way shape or form.

scotty K · #14 10-24-2005, 06:51 PM

Yes I am for real. I think that it is unfortant that this still happens. While I was on break from college, I work with a GLO during a recolonization. I had to fight to keep them from doing anything that might be harmful.

PikeRugby2002 · #15 11-26-2005, 07:38 AM

Hazing is ridiculous and immature. I am a Pike and a Senior at my chapter. We abide by strict no-hazing policies because it is unprofessional and builds no brotherhood. Somehow we have managed to win more Smyth Awards than almost any chapter in the nation and to maintain amazing brotherhood.
To those at different chapters who might say: “This is how it has always been. I had to do it, so should they.” – You are cowards not worthy of my letters. Grow a backbone and break the cycle of immaturity and stupidity. Hazing only causes pledges to hate members. This reasoning is ridiculous and perpetuates the problem.
To others who might say: “How can we really know if they want to be a Pike if we don’t haze them.” – Grow up. You are simply proving that they are too cowardly and lack self-confidence enough to put up with some idiot abusing them. Is this the kind of men we want in our fraternity? They’ll pass their tests and become involved if they want to be there. I would rather have one pledge with enough backbone to quit because he’s not stupid enough to put up with hazing than fifty that would take it.
Do any of you think that our founders were stupid and immature enough to haze? Do you really think that such an amazing fraternity was founded on the principle of abusing prospective members to “see if they want it”?
It won’t make you popular, but if your chapter hazes, be a man. Stand up to your members and tell them that their desire to harass pledges does not trump your desire to see your fraternity become great. Is it worth losing your chapter to physically haze a kid? If your answer is yes, your loyalty lies not with Pi Kappa Alpha, but with yourself. It won’t make you popular, but it will make you respected.