Andrea Yates? What Do You Think?

korkscru · #1 01-09-2002, 09:47 AM

Hello all GCers:

I was listening to Russ Parr and Olivia Foxx this morning and the question of the day centered around the story behind the woman who killed her five children last year and the issue of postpartum depression/psychosis. Was this woman depressed? Did she lose her mind for a minute and in the process killed her kids? Should she get the death penalty? Was her husband at fault for not recognizing her behavior? And there were other questions related to the topic.

Now, I'm a mother of two. I had my last child 2 and a half years ago. I KNOW the trauma (physical and mental) that a woman endures when pregnant and giving labor to a child. I know that, to some degree, all woman experience depression after having a child. It's stressful and life-changing, to say the least. BUT... for the life of me, I just CAN'T SEE or even FATHOM actually KILLING my children. Now I know that there are different feelings and opinions about this topic. And I realize that the concept of postpartum depression/psychosis is REAL (I'm a Qualified Mental Health Counselor and I work with children with many mental diagnoses on a daily basis). But, like I told my friends when we were discussing this topic, I would LEAVE my children FIRST if I EVER contemplated hurting or killing them. I love them just THAT much. I would leave them with my husband, family, or friends or even give them up before I went so far as to do something as HEARTLESS as that.

Now as far as whether she should get the death penalty.... Well, I don't really know. But I DO feel that the death penalty is not a REAL punishment. This woman should be allowed to LIVE so that she can deal with her conscious and the negative stigma that comes with what she has done. I also feel like this. No matter WHAT this woman has done, no matter how terrible this crime was, if she repents, gets things straight with God, and receives the Holy Ghost, she's going to be forgiven and she'll go to Heaven. Now that's not to say that she won't haveto suffer the consequences of punishment here on this earth.

Now I heard Olivia Foxx say that she could not/would not forgive this woman (because the husband has said that he forgives his wife) for what she did. The twist to that issue is that if her husband and their families DON'T forgive her, then they will not be forgiven by God for their transgressions. HATING this woman won't change anything and it won't bring those beautiful children back. And that does not mean that her husband and their families should beg that she not be punished, but they are SUPPOSED to forgive her. Now THAT'S something to ponder, right?

What do you-guys think?

Oh yeah, please don't go off. These are JUST my thoughts and... sorry for the long post.

CrimsonTide4 · #2 03-12-2002, 07:42 PM

Texas Mother Found Guilty of Capital Murder
Tue Mar 12, 6:39 PM ET
By Jeff Franks

HOUSTON (Reuters) - A Texas jury on Tuesday took less than four hours to find Andrea Yates guilty of capital murder in the drowning deaths of her five young children last summer.

The verdict means that on Thursday Yates, 37, faces a new phase of the trial in which jurors will decide whether she will be sentenced to die by lethal injection or sent to prison for life. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty in a county that leads the nation in executions.

Yates, who has been on anti-psychotic medication throughout the trial, appeared impassive as State District Judge Belinda Hill read the verdicts. Lawyer George Parnham put his arm around his client.

Yates' husband, NASA (news - web sites) engineer Rusty Yates, dropped his head into his hands after the verdict was read, while his mother sat beside him and hugged him. Yates' mother, Jutta Kennedy, sat stoically, her eyes reddening with tears.

The former nurse confessed to drowning the children, who ranged in age from 6 months to 7 years, in the bathtub of their Houston home on June 20, 2001, but said she did it to protect them from Satan.

She had been mentally ill for at least two years before the murders, twice attempting suicide and four times being treated in a mental hospital, experts testified.

Defense lawyers George Parnham and Wendell Odom argued Yates was a loving mother who spiraled into a severe, psychotic form of postpartum depression that started after her fourth pregnancy and worsened after her last.

Prosecutors sought a guilty verdict on the grounds that she was sick, but sane enough to know the crime was wrong, the standard for legal sanity in Texas.

The jury, which has been sequestered throughout a trial that is now in its fourth week, took just 3 hours and 40 minutes to decide Yates' guilt. In doing so, they rejected the defense's plea that their verdict could serve as a "springboard" for improved women's mental health care.

Salience · #3 03-12-2002, 07:59 PM

I feel sorry for her, I do believe she is mentally ill. There were quite a few factors that added to her severe depression. I can forgive her more easily than Susan Smith, not that her sin is MINE to forgive.

c&c1913 · #4 03-12-2002, 11:03 PM

Now when does the husband go on trial?!? She didn't make those babies by herself!!

squirrely girl · #5 03-12-2002, 11:51 PM

sorry to intrude on ya'll's forum here. but i've got an opinion. along the lines of the whole husband comment. yah. she didn't make those babies herself. and if he thought she was sooooooo mentally ill like he claimed throughout the whole trial, WHY DIDN'T HE GET HER SOME HELP???? and not to complain 'bout the quality of treatment she might have been recieving...but if nothing has worked so far, what makes people think that mental help now would have made a serious difference. ah well.

marissa

kizzie22 · #6 03-13-2002, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by c&c1913
Now when does the husband go on trial?!? She didn't make those babies by herself!!

I agree...I can't believe he has been sooo supportive of this fruit cake!!!!! There is NO way I would stand behind someone who murdered my children!!!!She thought playing crazy would get her off but it didn't....

DeltaBetaBaby · #7 03-13-2002, 01:28 AM

We had a similar incident locally a few weeks ago. I can't tell you how upsetting it is when it hits this close to home. The woman is a member of the only synagogue in champaign, and while I don't know her personally, she is still a member of our community. I mentor a fourth-grader through Big Bros/Big Sisters and she asked me to explain to her how a woman could kill her own child.

Read about it here

straightBOS · #8 03-13-2002, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by korkscru
Now I heard Olivia Foxx say that she could not/would not forgive this woman (because the husband has said that he forgives his wife) for what she did. The twist to that issue is that if her husband and their families DON'T forgive her, then they will not be forgiven by God for their transgressions. HATING this woman won't change anything and it won't bring those beautiful children back. And that does not mean that her husband and their families should beg that she not be punished, but they are SUPPOSED to forgive her. Now THAT'S something to ponder, right?

What do you-guys think?

Yes, but, what is forgiveness?

Forgiveness is like osmosis, it's a process. I can't see my hubby murder my kids when I am at work and then I come home on some ol' "I gotta forgive you so that I can get into Heaven".
It's deeper than that---if he truly loved his children. It's not a sin to take a long time to forgive. It's what makes us human, believing anything else is hubris in one of it's best examples.

The fact that the next day he was on tv forgiving was very confusing. Hurt, pain, anger are all human emotions, so unless he plans on standing up and revealing himself as the second coming of Christ, he needs to admit that it really isn't, and should not be, THAT easy to forgive.

On another note, I can't agree with the Death Penalty, no matter what... but dang, this woman and her psychosis and devils and demons are working my last...

Penny_2 · #9 03-13-2002, 04:46 PM

I've never had children, so I have no idea what it feels like, but after Andrea Yates, I saw a number of documentaries about how some women go through serious PPD. One woman in particular stands out in my mind. She appeared to have the perfect life but she was seriously depressed after giving birth and her whole family was worried about her. She was hospitalized but ran away and jumped off a building

I think we're so conditioned to believe that having a baby is supposed to be the most joyous time in a woman's life, but that's being shown as untrue for some women.

I think there's a HUGE difference between Andrea Yates and Susan Smith (remember her a few years back?) Susan just wanted to get rid of her kids to lead a new life. I can't understand Andrea not being found insane. I don't think any sane person would do what she did.

shani · #10 03-13-2002, 05:34 PM

Playing Devil's Advocate

I completely understand the negative attitudes towards Andrea Yates. BUT, NO mother in their RIGHT state of mind would kill her kids. I'm still young and I have no kids but has anyone in this forum suffered from mental illness? Mental illness is when people do irrational things that we NORMALLY wouldn't do! So if we know that this woman is crazy and her mental state is highly questionable why are we holding her fully accountable for her actions?
"She had been mentally ill for at least two years before the murders, twice attempting suicide and four times being treated in a mental hospital, experts testified"
- Associated Press
But that brings me to question if her doctor did know that she was mentally unstable (knowing how Houston has a track record for mothers that kill their kids). Why did these innocent children remain in her care??

I feel that this woman's doctor should also be placed of trial because he/she could have prevented this travesty

mccoyred · #11 03-13-2002, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shani
But that brings me to question if her doctor did know that she was mentally unstable (knowing how Houston has a track record for mothers that kill their kids). Why did these innocent children remain in her care??

For this reason, I hold the HUSBAND responsible as well. This man was a well paid professional who could have made other arrangements for his wife (as far as healthcare) or his children (as far as childcare). I think he should be tried for negligent homicide.

CrimsonTide4 · #12 03-13-2002, 07:07 PM

There are more people at fault here than just the mom. There were 5 children -- darn near stair step children in terms of age. While I am not a mother, I know that pregnancy and motherhood while wonderful are also overwhelming and draining. To me, if this dad has it all mentally SOMETHING should have clicked that either A. we need to stop making all of these babies, B. my children need to be in child care full time and C. my wife needs more help than what is currently being given.

You all know I am a teacher and there are days when I want to SCREEEEEEEEEEAM

at some of the stunts that my students pull but whenever I feel at my wit's end, you know what I do?!?! TAKE A MENTAL HEALTH DAY.

It seems to me that their entire family, no matter how extensive, dropped the ball on this one. You know how they say It takes a village to raise a child -- well dang it, the village should have worked harder to help out the Yates family. We need to return to the days of helping families raise their kids. I offer to watch my friends' kids all the time, partly because they are so cute but also because I know that they need a break from them as well.

Salience · #13 03-14-2002, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by c&c1913
Now when does the husband go on trial?!? She didn't make those babies by herself!!

I completely agree, ESPECIALLY since she didn't want to have more kids, and he kept insisting. And what about healthcare workers who could see the sings of her distress?

He NEEDS to be supportive, since he helped exacerbate the situation.

And, we don't know if she knew about birth control options, but he seems like a possessive, controlling man who wants his woman to remain barefoot and pregnant 24-7. He gets no sympathy from me.

straightBOS · #14 03-14-2002, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Salience

And, we don't know if she knew about birth control options, but he seems like a possessive, controlling man who wants his woman to remain barefoot and pregnant 24-7. He gets no sympathy from me.

I believe that they were Catholics, so birth control was not an option.

kizzie22 · #15 03-15-2002, 05:16 PM

Life in Prison

I just found out Andrea Yates got life in prison instead of the death penalty...My question to everyone is...Do you think this was a fair decision? I personally think she should have gotten the dealth penalty. She took the life of five innocent children. She KNEW exactly what she was doing and I don't buy that mentally illness crap one bit...