Question for Eric?

[hoosier]

Somebody posted this"

"Some younger readers don't know about the horrible "junior college experiment" in the 1970s were legitimate national fraternities intalled chapters at junior colleges because they thought that was the wave of the future. It wasn't - and there was a lot of controversey over it at the time - and now there are junior colleges all over the place littered with dead systems of legitimate nationals."

Do you have any memories of this? I think only a few natls. were interested in JCs, and I don't think many JC chapters were ever chartered?

I was talked with the head Chi Phi in the office here, and he said "Chi Phi won't have any chapters where you can major in welding!"

There was a lot of thought at that time that the future was almost everyone went to JC for two years, and then transferred to a real college. Illinois actually created a two-year school, with only jrs. and srs., in Springfield called Sangamon or Sagamore, I think, to pursue this thinking. IL was building junior colleges in about every county, including a brand new one on a hill not five miles from U IL Champaign. My college directory doesn't list a Sagamon/more, so I guess it has become the UI-Springfield.

Many also thought back then that college enrollment would be declining after the baby boomers and their kids were gone, but that was wrong too.

Let us know what you know, O Sage of the Rockies.

[Erik P Conard]

Sangamon State is now UI-Springfield. TKE had a chapter in
Corpus that went 'upper division' and we did not survive, why I
know not. They seem to have reverted to four year status but I have found no one who can talk about it, though I know TKE is no
longer there. This was a horrible period in TKE history, by the way
Don Kaser, as Grand Prytanis, was hot on the idea of TKE as a jc
feeder and pushed Melchert to goad the HQ and TJ into doing a
survey. Well, I had been on Kollintzas' team since '56 as an undergrad and then a fielder and further a hotshot expansion guy. While Kaser did not particularly buy my act, I was dean of a
Kansas "junior college" at this time, the early 70s. I had a lot of
data on higher education, wrote my PhD dissertation on Kansas
higher ed and was collaborating with John Robson, sig ep, with a
revision of Baird's. So, I knew Sig Pi had a jc founding and that they had somewhat been eager to revive Alpha at Vincennes, &
the JC movement wasin the process of changing to "community colleges" nomenclature with huge
enrollments in some places. Kansas had 19 public community jc's
and I was a graduate of one (Hutchinson) and dean of another as
well as secretary of the Jayhawk Junior College Conference, the largest of it's kind. But I knew of the problems we had in KS and in MO with transfers from the teachers' colleges to larger schools,
and the reluctance in some cases in taking them in as fraters....
and I had been one of those, too, initiated at Gamma Phi, Kansas
State Teachers College, Emporia and transferring to Alpha Phi at KU. While we supplied a lot of the leadership, we were not totally
well-received...Behaviors and manners and other expectations were foreign to some and unobserved by others. Clashes galore.
Well, the jc's had been glorified high school exentsions with a big
flunk out rate when transferred....
And, two years at the jc...would they have a house? Would they
be full time? Would they fit transfer-wise? The twenty some two
year schools in Kansas varied widely, size-wise, and somewhat philosophically...But I put together some NY, FL, TX, CA, all of KS, some others...and concluded that this would be a bad deal. Don
Becker was ape shit over Broward and Miami-Dade and we did charter at both...unenthusiastically. I think both of these would likely work. Erie in PA, Tyler in TX, Vincennes in IN, perhaps others, were chartered. Sig Ep had at least one, and I simply do
not know others. At any rate, I was very negative, and cursed in
a few circles. We went ahead and chartered the two FL ones, the
only charters for two-year schools TKE ever did.
We were entering a whole new field, trade schools, extensions,
shopping centers, on-line ones, golly, quite a contrast to the Union and Miami triads. I kinda threw up my hands and basically
quit. Kane was in my camp. Logan, too, but Georgeff, soon to be
unceremoniously cashiered out of the Grand Council, left with a sour gizzard. Kollintzas died and the idea was shitcanned.
I was basically the only one left of the whole shebang and I took a lot of heat for it and to still this day am widely ignored.
Think of an Iowa State, KU or SC or another semi-snooty being besieged by transfers from junior colleges from everywhere with
three-eyed nerds whose best buddies were Acacias on that campus...problem, and would TKE profit...no, HELL NO!
I could write a lot on this but no one seems to care and/or have
much interest today. The entire system is kinda out of whack, and I don't know what to say. Even writing a history is a chore I
myself turned down twenty years ago, and TKE + Mark have
had a tough time finishing TKE's 100th...no criticism from me, tho.
Perhaps this might be discussed at some future conclave at length but count me out. I have attended my last conclave. The
Indy one so soured me on their treatment of alumni that I have just about tossed in the towel, but continue to write a little yet.

[hoosier]

Interesting to me, and maybe one other GC Teke, but thanks for the info.

You said Kolintzas was dead - on the GC or in life? He's the one who 'hired' me. He was at Hofstra for a while, and then I heard he had gone to Greece. Never heard anything else, or saw his death mentioned in the magazine.

[JonInKC]

Erik, what treatment of alumni are you talking about? Was it done by the undergrads, the officers, or both? I would really like to see existing TKE chapters stronger before we give more charters, of course with the exception of re-chartering schools that once had a chapter.

[Alpha Sig Scott]

Eric
While not a TKE I found your post quite interesting.

[gpb1874]

about TKE at Corpus Christi...

I was a student there, worked there, moved and am about to work there again in student activities. I checked out a few old yearbooks and saw TKE pictures in there....i thought it was pretty cool! I think we had Pikes then too. Not sure about sororities.

The university (then University of Corpus Christi, private Baptist school), was really small. It became Texas A&I Univ-CC for a few years and was still a 4 year. Then, it became CC State Univ until 1993 and was only a two year upper division (jrs, srs, grads). This area was very small at that time and most students went away to college or attended the local community college, then transfered to CCSU. I imagine that is why TKE left.....not enough students to keep it going. It had less than 1,000 students at any given time between 1975-1993.

In 1993, it was still a 2 year, but name changed to Texas A&M-CC. It became 4 year in 1994, but no Greeks. The student activities office was composed of one full time person and one full time secretary, so not really enough to manage much of anything.

By 1997, the office had changed completely - a new director was hired and he is a Phi Delt. They agreed to open for expansion and had this huge process. I wasn't involved in the process, but was involved in other student activites at the time and saw some of the stuff they did. There was a student led Greek Expansion Committee (which some of us had a good time poking fun at the fact it sounded out GEEK).

Presentations were done for NPC, NIC and NPHC organizations. Invitations to colonize were handed out and they started
recruiting in fall 1998. Groups colonizing that year:

Sororities:
Gamma Phi Beta * Delta Delta Delta * Alpha Gamma Delta
Alpha Kappa Alpha (just began recruiting, didn't really colonize until about 2 years later)

Fraternities:
Phi Delta Theta * Beta Theta Pi * Sigma Phi Epsilon

All chapters are still there and most are doing well. They have also added Lambda Theta Alpha, Sigma Lambda Beta and Sigma Lambda Gamma (all NALFO orgs).

I'm not sure if TKE participated in the presentations back in 1997-1998 or not. I know they chose the fraternities partly based on their new chapter programs (balanced man, men of principle). i can't find if Phi Delts had a similar program, but i remember that they unleashed their alcohol free housing initiative around that time, so that could've been a factor. And the original advisor is one. That never hurts.

The campus is contemplating adding another NIC fraternity in the next couple years, from what i hear. I was told they already have a chapter in mind. No chapters have housing, althoug SigEps had a lodge for less than a year. It was more of a pain for them than anything else.

so, there you go. All you wanted to know and more about the history Corpus Christi and Greek life.

[Tom Earp]

This is why I always Check the TKE Thread because of Eriks Knowledge of not only TKE but many other Greek Organizations.

It is funny as at The 2005 G A of LXA decided defenitely to not go attempt or even think about it by the Brothers.

As Erik said, the great experiment seemed in many cases a waste of time and money and proved to be a bust.

Even back in that period of Time, The 4 Year State Colleges were looked down on.

It does amaze Me how many of the 2 year schools have and are expanding to 4 year Schools such as Tyler and Corpus Christi in Tx, just to name two!

[hoosier]

Down memory lane: had a chance this week to drive by the Drexel TKE house, which I had visited in the summer of '64, I think. (At that time they were building a bar in the basement, with a keg cooling system for a local brew which came with cooling coils inside the keg. Quite a project)

The house still looks just like the pictures in the Teke Guide and Teke magazine of that era - an ideal chapter house. Nice walled in front yard, gated, and a few small columns on the porch.

Phi Sigma Sigma now next door, and Lambda Chi on the corner.

I'd hate to go to school in downtown Philadelphia, though.

[Erik P Conard]

We've had some interesting posts on baptist scools, especially in
ole dixie. Bob Jones, Liberty, Clemson, Furman, Baylor, quite
different in their treament of GLOs. Who knows, maybe Oral
Roberts, John Brown, others of the snake-handling ilk..why even
Frau Brücher may become a trustee....Goll-lee, kill an A-RAB for Christ. Keep tuned.