100+ man chapters

[g41965]

Recently an Indiana DU posted that his chapter was up to 105 members and doing nicely, brought up a thought how many chapters in your fraternity are at 100+ members, I assume many sorority chapters are this large.
Does size have any correlation to quality IE grades, athletic standing, house alumni support etc.

DU 100+ chapters I know of:
Indiana, Wisconsin, Illinois, Missourri, Kansas, Kansas State, Central Florida probably several more but I don't want to be wrong.

[Tom Earp]

To be truthful, I have no clue how many LXA Chapters fall in this catagory, but am sure there are many.

My main thought would be if My LXA Chapters were compreable to those in other GLOs of the same Campus.

I always have wondered How the Members really know each other!

Bigger isnt always better.

[Firehouse]

Chapter size is a reliable correllation of strength, but it is relative to the campus. At Penn State there are 55 fraternities, but a "large" fraternity is around 65 men. At Texas or Texas Tech, those considered the top fraternities will all have considerably more than 100 members.
At the University of Virginia, a chapter with 150 men would seem very much out of place, but fraternities considered the leaders at UVa will have maybe 60 members. On the other hand, a chapter of 60 men at Florida State cannot compete with the 100+ man chapters there, some of them with more than 150 members.
As far as how the members know each other, I'll point out that at may schools there are sorority chapters with nearly 200 members - some even larger - and they don't seem to have any problem with it at all.
I am a proponent of large chapters. If you have enough strength to draw the best men, then those are the men you WANT to be associated with. Fraternities run on momentum amd morale, and brothgerhood is enhanced when you're a member of the winning team.

[ilikehazing]

I know of only 2 or 3 fraternities out of 12 that aren't at a 100 members at our campus.

[hoosier]

Originally posted by ilikehazing
I know of only 2 or 3 fraternities out of 12 that aren't at a 100 members at our campus.

Sounds great.

Where is this?

[Coramoor]

I think think I disagree on most of the points made by firehouse.

Numbers does not equal strength or quality. What it does encourage is blanket bidding, easy pledge processes, not worrying about quality.

Sororities here have about 100 members, and they admit that they do not know their sisters that well. Some of the newer girls wouldn't even recognize the older sisters that are that active anymore.

All numbers equate to is more money. In terms of organization, leadership, quality, etc there is nothing a 150 man chapter can do that a 40 man chapter cannot also do.

There are two frats on my campus that hold numbers as the most important aspect. All of the other fraternities view them as a joke because they recruit anyone and everyone.

[ArizonaDelt]

The Kappa Sigma chapter here at the UA consists of over 200 members. They're the biggest and oldest fraternity in Arizona...and are always getting in trouble, I rushed there last semester and was turned off completely.

[Tom Earp]

It is obvious that with those size of Members as was said, there will be a lot that dont know each other, How Sad!

I would also feel fulish if I were walking across Campus and see someone with letters and ask if they are a Member From My Chapter, a transfer, or just visiting.

I never knew a time with a My @ 60 Man Chapter that all didnt know each another.

Liken it to Eng or Math 101 meeting in an amphitheater with 100-200 + students. Just a Number, not a true learning student according to your Instructor.

[OleMissGlitter]

At Ole Miss I would say that Phi Delta Theta, Kappa Sigma, Sigma Chi, Sigma Nu, Pi Kappa Alpha, and KA Order all have over 100 guys...Sigma Chi and Sigma Nu might even have over 200...the other fraternities range from like 20 members to 90 members...Sig Ep might have over 100 too.

[hoosier]

Originally posted by OleMissGlitter
At Ole Miss I would say that Phi Delta Theta, Kappa Sigma, Sigma Chi, Sigma Nu, Pi Kappa Alpha, and KA Order all have over 100 guys...Sigma Chi and Sigma Nu might even have over 200...the other fraternities range from like 20 members to 90 members...Sig Ep might have over 100 too.

Would you say that at Ole Miss, these 100+ man chapters are among the leaders in power, prominence, and prestige?

Do these chapters lead in intramurals, campus politics, community service?

Do sororities like to have socials with these chapters?

To summarize, these large chapters likely lead the campus in every important way.

Maybe some small chapter has some success, but noting like the biggies do.

[Firehouse]

The numbers issue has been discussed over and over. Coramoor, I think you and I would probably disagree on the way specific chapters are valued (based on your comments, especially the "easy pledge process"), but I would agree with you that the only proper measure of your fraternity's value to you is what you personally get out of the membership.
I know a little about Morgantown (I'm from Logan originally) and who is - or used to be - considered the top fraternities there. My guess is they are also among the larger chapters on campus.

Let me turn your analogy on its head: you said a 150 man chapter cannot do anything that a 40 man chapter cannot do. Well, a 40 man chapter cannot hope to compete with a 150 man chapter when manpower is a key factor. The smallest fraternity on campus never wins the overall Intramural Trophy, they don't have the top sororities locked up, they don't have the power in student government and they cannot draw pledges from among the most ambitious guys on campus. The smaller chapters usually keep to themselves and don't compete in anything. Nothing wrong with that; if you don't compete you don't have to worry about being judged. If you making hard pledgeship and hazing a virtue, then you never have to worry about competing to recruit the football quarterback or the student body president - they aren't interested.

It's a mistake to equate large size with low quality. It's a big mistake to equate small size with exclusivity. the truth is that the top men, the most ambitious men, the sharpest men, want to join the popular group with the most men like them.
If you and I start out to create a large chapter by offering bids to everyone, it won't be large for long. No one wants to join a fraternity that everyone/anyone can join. The chapters that inflate their numbers by mass-bidding usually aren't large for long. The fraternities who want to be large because they recruit winners and achievers find that their biggest problem is saying no to potential pledges because so many men want to join.

Tom Earp, I respect your opinions but let me draw another analogy to you about "knowing each other". You spoke of walking across campus and wondering whether or not that fellow in the LXA jersey was from your chapter or not. Consider this: let's say you are in Special Forces, and you're in a strange town where you don't know anyone. You walk into a bar crowded with other military men - you don't know anyone. Across the room you see one other man who's wearing a green beret like yours. You see him; he sees you. You immediately have a bond with that man because you know have more in common with each other than with any other man in that room. You've had the same experience of being in an elite unit. the fraternity parallel is this: if you're the biggest, the best, you're the IM champions, you run the campus and own the sororities, you are in an elite unit, and you immediately have a bond with that other LXA (or Pike or Phi Delt or KA).
Tom, your Lambda Chis on my campus have 150+ men and they are an elite unit. My chapter too. We do have smaller fraternities as well.
Coramoor, some of those 40-man chapters are miserable because they are lesser quality outfits. A few, however, are very happy with who they are because they value different things than we do. I have no problem at all with that. But...don't sit there with 40 men and try to tell me that you could compete with us if you all-of-a-sudden decided to make a game of it. It's perfectly OK to play football for Fairmont State; it can be a wonderful, rewarding experience and you can get a lot out of it. But don't delude yourself into thinking that playing for Fairmont means that the men who play for the Southen Cal Trojans or the Texas Longhorns are somehow less worthy or less enthusiastic or that their high profile "does not equal strength or quality".
I mean no disrespect, it just pisses me off to hear someone say off-hand that big chapters have less quality and that small chapters are more selective. In my experience, the exact opposite is almost always true.

[Firehouse]

Hoosier: hear, hear!
You said it in five sentences. It took me half a page. Good job.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by Coramoor
I think think I disagree on most of the points made by firehouse.

Numbers does not equal strength or quality. What it does encourage is blanket bidding, easy pledge processes, not worrying about quality.

Sororities here have about 100 members, and they admit that they do not know their sisters that well. Some of the newer girls wouldn't even recognize the older sisters that are that active anymore.

All numbers equate to is more money. In terms of organization, leadership, quality, etc there is nothing a 150 man chapter can do that a 40 man chapter cannot also do.

There are two frats on my campus that hold numbers as the most important aspect. All of the other fraternities view them as a joke because they recruit anyone and everyone.

Well said.

[33girl]

I think it all depends on how your campus runs things like intramurals, Greek Week, etc.

I mean as far as, say, intramural basketball...if the 30 person chapter has the 10 best basketball players there are, and they all play, what does it matter if they go up against a 150 person chapter? You can only have 5 guys playing at once.

I completely agree with what Coramoor is saying, and it is the prevalent attitude around here (dude, I'm pulling you over the Mason-Dixon just for this post, LOL). To wit, the biggest chapters at Penn State, the biggest Greek school, being the size of the smallest chapters at Texas and such. It's not innately bad to be big, but as far as things are concerned in this neck of the woods, it usually seems like the biggest are only concerned with warm bodies and not quality of members - especially where fraternities are concerned. If you see it happen again and again, you will begin to believe that big = full of lame-os.

[Coramoor]

To elaborate on my campus, which is where I draw most of my experience from, the largest fraternities are no where near the top on campus. In fact, it is quite the opposite. They do not draw on the most ambitious, talented, or active men on campus. They draw on the men with like interests, or from specific parts of the state. Many of the athletes, student gov't leaders, etc don't even look at those fraternities because of their membership.

In terms of manpower, if you have any experience within an organizagtion you will agree that there is always a small core group that do the most work. In the military it's the 80/20 rule. 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. When that is taken into consideration the numbers gap quickly closes. While the larger chapter still has a slight advantage in numbers-that generally means that it is easier for people to slack off and lay the blame on other people or claim ignorance when something is not completed.

A difficult pledge process doesn't mean that hazing is a virtue. However, in large pledge classes bonding and getting to know people cannot be achieved on the same level. Your example of a man in the special forces is good...for the special forces. On a national level, it would work, but not on a chapter level. I would be embarrassed if I didn't know everyone in my chapter. There is no way to justify not knowing and having a bond with someone that is your 'brother' from the same chapter. Also, a brother that does not have to work for his pin is not going to respect or care about it as much.

It's a big mistake to equate small size with exclusivity. the truth is that the top men, the most ambitious men, the sharpest men, want to join the popular group with the most men like them.

It is a far larger mistake to equate a large chapter with getting all the top men. In a class of 50, you are saying that all 50 men are best on campus. The best and the brightest are going to look for a solid group of men, but also one where they will have the most impact internally and externally.