A serious problem.

[AXEAM]

I recently found out what I consider to be a disturbing statistic while in a training one of the speakers pointed out that 69% of black children were born out of wedlock. My first reaction to this was disbelief b/c that would mean that only 31% of black children were born to married parents I feel this is a problem that causes other social ills in the black community.

[ladygreek]

I feel that the greater problem is the home environment in which the child is raised, not just whether the parents are married or not. I think a child raised in a single parent loving environment will be better off than a child raised in a two-parent abusive environment.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by ladygreek
I feel that the greater problem is the home enivronment in which the child is raised, not just whether the parents are married or not. I think a child raised in a single parent loving environment will be better off than a child raised in a two-parent abusive environment.

Well said.

[Honeykiss1974]

I don't think we can totally dismiss the importance of a funcitoning two-parent family so easily. Yes, ladygreek makes an excellent point, but we need to keep in mind that a father (or father-like figure) is very important to the life of a child, both a boy and especially for a girl.

A father is the first and most influencial image of a man that a young child (especially a girl) will see. He has the power to shape her entire view of men, love, relationships, self esteem, etc. that will affect her as she grows and most likely even throughout adulthood. If there is no functioning father figure in the home, she will seek that male attention from somewhere in some form (sex, unwanted pregnancy, multiple partners, etc.).

I agree with AXEAM. While I don't condone people getting married just to say "hey, I'm married" - I think its painfully obvious that over the last 30 years, as the "Black Family" has erroded (going from "the norm" to the exception ) so have our communities and even the mindset of those generations that have followed.

I mean, when you have girls in high school that look forward to having or throwing a baby shower while in high school - something is up!

[AXEAM]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
I don't think we can totally dismiss the importance of a funcitoning two-parent family so easily. Yes, ladygreek makes an excellent point, but we need to keep in mind that a father (or father-like figure) is very important to the life of a child, both a boy and especially for a girl.

A father is the first and most influencial image of a man that a young child (especially a girl) will see. He has the power to shape her entire view of men, love, relationships, self esteem, etc. that will affect her as she grows and most likely even throughout adulthood. If there is no functioning father figure in the home, she will seek that male attention from somewhere in some form (sex, unwanted pregnancy, multiple partners, etc.).

I agree with AXEAM. While I don't condone people getting married just to say "hey, I'm married" - I think its painfully obvious that over the last 30 years, as the "Black Family" has erroded (going from "the norm" to the exception ) so have our communities and even the mindset of those generations that have followed.

I mean, when you have girls in high school that look forward to having or throwing a baby shower while in high school - something is up!

I believe Honeykiss hit the nail on the head...I also believe that a lot of the relationship problems that face Blackmen & Blackwomen stem from not having married parents in the house. How can a person know how to treat or know how to expect to be treated by a member of the opposite sex when they never witnessed it being done.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by AXEAM
I believe Honeykiss hit the nail on the head...I also believe that a lot of the relationship problems that face Blackmen & Blackwomen stem from not having married parents in the house. How can a person know how to treat or know how to expect to be treated by a member of the opposite sex when they never witnessed it being done.

True, but what if that treatment being shown is cold or abusive, or just cordial at best?

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by ladygreek
Ture, but what if that treatment being shown is cold or abusive, or just cordial at best?

I think we all would agree that having one "average" parent is better than have one or two that are abusive. So let's just keep the conversation in terms of the "average" parent (ex. has a job, does their best to raise their children, etc.).

Regarding the other examples (cold, cordial), I do think that when it comes to parenting styles (loving vs. cordial, strict vs. liberal) it can get VERY subjective. For example, what I deem as nothing more than "disciplining out of love", someone else may not think otherwise and deem me a bad parent.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
I think we all would agree that having one "average" parent is better than have one or two that are abusive. So let's just keep the conversation in terms of the "average" parent (ex. has a job, does their best to raise their children, etc.).

Regarding the other examples (cold, cordial), I do think that when it comes to parenting styles (loving vs. cordial, strict vs. liberal) it can get VERY subjective. For example, what I deem as nothing more than "disciplining out of love", someone else may not think otherwise and deem me a bad parent.

And that is my point, too. It is subjective. Per the original post I am part of the problem.

[abaici]

Do we not feel that two good parents, is better than one great parent?

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by ladygreek
And that is my point, too. It is subjective. Per the original post I am part of the problem.

I guess I didn't take the OP to mean that he was knocking ALL single parents but mostly those of my generation.

I believe that a 2 parent home is ideal and this is coming from someone who grew up in a single parent home since the age of 12. I know my mom did a wonderful job with me ( ) but I'm not going to pretend that the total absence of a father figure had no effect on me.

[enigma_AKA]

The problem ISN'T with women who, out of wedlock, have children who can adequately support them. We know that those who have the PRIVELEGE of using this forum are outside of this consideration---obviously, they have been themselves or are the product of women/men who knew what it took to be a parent--not just a 'baby mama/daddy'. It's with the women who CANNOT.

The cycle of Black women who aren't (and I use that word deliberately) financially, socially or emotionally sound who continue to have babies, is the issue that permeates the Black community. True enough, if the majority of children of this 69% were living in *healthy* situations, then it wouldn't be an issue of morality or otherwise. In fact, it wouldn't even be a discussion. The blame wouldn't be placed on inadequate/non existent birth control, foolish decisions and, as mentioned before, the lauding of teenage pregnancies, to mention a few. While few to no single mothers will say "My baby wasn't a blessing; I wish I had never had him/her", let's be honest here: it's hard enough having a child with TWO parents, let alone ONE.

And for economic, social and psychological reasons, having a two parent home IS the ideal for obvious reasons. Not to say that every two parent home is best--most homes in general aren't
*perfect*. But having a partner (let's speak in average--not extenuating circumstances like abusive, emotionally neglecting, etc)to help in making even the most minute decisions that affects a human being for their well being for the rest of their life is of course, the smart move to make.

Besides, it takes two people to PRODUCE a child. It takes a village to RAISE one. And that village starts with the home.

enigma_AKA

[ladygreek]

Okay, then let's take the issue off of just the Black woman and discuss why our Black men are being "baby Daddy's" to multiple children in the first place. Yes, it takes two folx to produce a child, but usually it is the man who runs away after that happens. But it is the woman/girl who gets put into the statistics, and are considered the problem. Maybe they just fell for the okey doke.

[enigma_AKA]

Black women are giving birth to these 69% of children born outside of wedlock.

I see what you're saying. However, since we KNOW that Black men are running off, having many babies with many women, shouldn't that be even more reason for women to take more precaution? At the end of the day/nine months, if the woman knows that she not only has to carry a baby to full term BY HERSELF and then possibly take care of the baby BY HERSELF, then wouldn't the rational answer be: be careful. Do what it takes to not have a baby. It's not even that difficult to NOT have a child. What's difficult is TO have one.

Especially Black women. We have been nutured in an attitude of self-sufficiency. When Black men oftentimes left us hanging, we were/are forced to make a living/to survive by any means neccessary. And when you are SURVIVING, it doesn't mean you are living; it means you are doing what it takes to get by. And THEN you try to bring another life into the world, barely making it with yet another mouth to feed, another spirit to nurture. This is NOT how one should raise a child in a *healthy* enviroment. Not to say it can't be done, but I mean, honestly...which would you have?

As far as the Black men who put themselves into the situation to be a 'baby daddy', that's about dual accountability. When two people are having sex WITHOUT protection, both are at fault. Yes, fault. To not concern yourself with the possible outcome of that short-time (however enjoyable) is foolish, on both ends.

Black women are 'enablers'; that we, knowing the consequences and the eventual burden, would allow ourselves to be put into situations as to have the child. Leroy the _____, might be everything and a bag of chips, BUT you know deep down and he knows, he will not be a great parent. Let's stop making excuses--'maybe he'll come around', 'maybe he'll pay the child support', 'maybe this', maybe that'. And in the midst of these maybes, a child will suffer. Maybe not in the ways most people can see, but a lasting impression will be manifested in more ways than one.

And our Black men need to stop and think. Laquandanisha might be great as all get out. But do you REALLY want her calling you day in and day out, getting your pay checks cut, possibly getting you in trouble with the feds worth a few seconds/minutes/hours of some a$$? Yeah, right. GROW UP. These are simple matters of consideration. Not rocket science--so we, Black women and Black women should expect better. For us to DO better.

Just another thought that a friend brought up to me today:The excuse that people don't 'think about it in the heat of the moment' or aren't thinking long term, while in the short term, is not enough. It never was, really, but we allowed ourselves to push it to the back burner. And not that pot is beginning to boil over. It is IMPERATIVE that we *think* about it. We need the proper guidance and models in our communities to promote THINKING ABOUT IT.

enigma_AKA

Originally posted by ladygreek
Okay, then let's take the issue off of just the Black woman and discuss why our Black men are being "baby Daddy's" to multiple children in the first place. Yes, it takes two folx to produce a child, but usually it is the man who runs away after that happens. But it is the woman/girl who gets put into the statistics, and are considered the problem. Maybe they just fell for the okey doke.

[AXEAM]

, possibly getting you in trouble with the feds worth a few s[QUOTE]Originally posted by enigma_AKA
[B]Black women are giving birth to these 69% of children born outside of wedlock.

I see what you're saying. However, since we KNOW that Black men are running off, having many babies with many women, shouldn't that be even more reason for women to take more precaution? At the end of the day/nine months, if the woman knows that she not only has to carry a baby to full term BY HERSELF and then possibly take care of the baby BY HERSELF, then wouldn't the rational answer be: be careful. Do what it takes to not have a baby. It's not even that difficult to NOT have a child. What's difficult is TO have one.

Especially Black women. We have been nutured in an attitude of self-sufficiency. When Black men oftentimes left us hanging, we were/are forced to make a living/to survive by any means neccessary. And when you are SURVIVING, it doesn't mean you are living; it means you are doing what it takes to get by. And THEN you try to bring another life into the world, barely making it with yet another mouth to feed, another spirit to nurture. This is NOT how one should raise a child in a *healthy* enviroment. Not to say it can't be done, but I mean, honestly...which would you have?

As far as the Black men who put themselves into the situation to be a 'baby daddy', that's about dual accountability. When two people are having sex WITHOUT protection, both are at fault. Yes, fault. To not concern yourself with the possible outcome of that short-time (however enjoyable) is foolish, on both ends.

Black women are 'enablers'; that we, knowing the consequences and the eventual burden, would allow ourselves to be put into situations as to have the child. Leroy the _____, might be everything and a bag of chips, BUT you know deep down and he knows, he will not be a great parent. Let's stop making excuses--'maybe he'll come around', 'maybe he'll pay the child support', 'maybe this', maybe that'. And in the midst of these maybes, a child will suffer. Maybe not in the ways most people can see, but a lasting impression will be manifested in more ways than one.

And our Black men need to stop and think. Laquandanisha might be great as all get out. But do you REALLY want her calling you day in and day out, getting your pay checks cuteconds/minutes/hours of some a$$? Yeah, right. GROW UP. These are simple matters of consideration. Not rocket science--so we, Black women and Black women should expect better. For us to DO better.

Just another thought that a friend brought up to me today:The excuse that people don't 'think about it in the heat of the moment' or aren't thinking long term, while in the short term, is not enough. It never was, really, but we allowed ourselves to push it to the back burner. And not that pot is beginning to boil over. It is IMPERATIVE that we *think* about it. We need the proper guidance and models in our communities to promote THINKING ABOUT IT.


This is a great post.


LG, it's not about the blame game b/c both parties males & females are at fault it's about a problem that is recking havoc on the black community. I'm not knocking single parents and I'm damn sure not knocking blackwomen b/c blackmen are just as much if not more to blame for the problem, I'm against the mindset that having kids w/o being married esp by those who can least afford to is becoming the norm in our community.

[ladygreek]

AXEAM, I hear ya. All I am saying is that we need to quit putting the total burden on the Black woman/girl, because many times (if not most) the girl is led to believe that she is showing true love for her man. I think you and I agree on that point.