Homosexuality (Intelligent Responses Only)

Attractive#7 · #1 10-23-2005, 03:24 AM

I have a question. Before I ask this question, I would like intelligent dialect only. If you have ignorant, closed-minded, or "gay bashing" remarks, please don't waste your time typing them. It's a shame that you have to still do this in 2005...any way.

I work for the Boy Scouts of America. I am a program aide and I currently have 4 groups of cub scouts that I run the meetings for. I was recently informed that homosexuality is outlawed in the Boy Scouts. I was floored. Of course a million questions popped up in my head, but one of which was the legality of the matter. How can you legally say that a person can not be a member of an organization b/c of their sexual preference. There have been numerous lawsuits against the BSA about this, but BSA won b/c they are a private org. and can deny who they please. ( I know I'm not saying that right, but that was the idea of it) Anyway 2 questions emerge...

1.) Can APO legally (if they wanted to) deny membership based on sexual preference?

2.) We are based off of the principles of the BSA would this effect on us? I don't think the founders every made a statement on it, so I'm not asking what they would think. We share so much in common with the BSA and I was wondering if this was one of those things. Like has the issue every been addressed?

naraht · #2 10-23-2005, 08:00 AM

1) No, we can't

2) No we aren't affected, yes it has been addressed.

Theoretically, APO has never banned homosexuals since prior to 1967, we required current or prior membership in scouting and a gay could have been a scout in his youth. Functionally, being an out homosexual prior to 1967 was fairly rare, so I don't think we dealt with it.

Since 1967, we have had our own admission policies, which were not tied to BSA's rules at all. At this point, I can name a few gay brothers of the fraternity.

Dave Emery, who is currently International Relations Chair, former Region X Director and former member @ large for service.
(Definitely out of the closet)

Malcolm Lee, currently Region III director.

Carson Kressley, one of the "queer eye for the straight guy" five.

Mike Marshall, one my two big brothers in Kappa Chapter.

Randy

Sister Havana · #3 10-23-2005, 11:26 AM

Didn't APO do somewhat of an official distancing from the BSA fairly recently, when this became an issue? Was it the national organization or local chapters? I remember hearing something about that.

naraht · #4 10-23-2005, 09:03 PM

There were some things in the early nineties where APO & BSA made the fact that we had separate membership requirements quite clear. This was something that both APO and BSA wanted. I don't think BSA wanted people to view APO as a part of BSA that did allow Gays...

Randy

Attractive#7 · #5 10-24-2005, 09:20 AM

I wasn't questioning whether we allowed homosexuals in the fraternity. I know several brothers myself. You did answer the question though when you said that BSA and APO made it clear that they have seperate requirements for membership.

You what's interesting to me? A lot of men in the BSA do not know anything about APO and the relationship that they have with each other. I just assumed that they would know.

naraht · #6 10-24-2005, 01:47 PM

I'm really not sure this is something that asking what the founders thought (especially what they thought in 1925) would work all that well. I'd personally be surprised if more than a small smidgen of the Lafayette College students in 1925 would have had feelings on homosexuality that would be considered moderate today. Whether or not those whose opinions were asked were former scouts or not probably wouldn't have made much difference.

IMO, the first year in this country where more than 5% of the country disagreed with BSA's position on Gays isn't until the late 1960s. (or later)

Quala67 · #7 10-24-2005, 04:03 PM

I can think of several folks (not all Brothers) that hid their sexuality until they'd attained Eagle Scout rank. They all hated that they felt like they had to do it, or they'd not attain Eagle...

emb021 · #8 10-31-2005, 12:54 PM

As a long-time BSA member, let me add something to this.

The BSA has not 'outlawed homosexuality'. As a private organization (and as you've noted ALL private organizations can set their membership policies), the BSA has stated that those who engage in homosexual behavior can't be members.

Please note that the US Military does the same thing.

The BSA does not ban homosexuals. They ban those homosexuals who have made it known that they engage in that behavior. The issue is the behavior.

Why?

Well, the thing is that most of the mainstream religious of this country (Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Mormon, etc) all have strong ties to the BSA. (the Methodists & Mormons are the top 2 sponsors of troops, btw). MOST if not all of these religious groups teach that homosexual behavior is immoral. (recall the recent issues about gay Catholic priests). While many in our society don't see anything wrong with homosexuals, most don't realize that their own churches are still teaching that homosexual behavior is wrong.

APO can not (and does not) do this. In fact, as a college organization, our chapters are usually bound by the policies of those universities, which would not allow this.

Are there gays in the BSA? Sure. But those people have kept that information to themselves. So long as they don't make an issue of it, there is no problem.

CasanovaAPQ · #9 11-03-2005, 02:23 PM

i personally have nothing against anyone who is homesexual. My godmother is a lesbian. To me its a personal thing that should be private. i dont agree with the whole ideal of wearing it on your shoulders. You should be a man first. what you do in your bed is your business. You should be responsible and aware of your suroundings.