Paper Members

[Reds695]

Do you have respect for members of your organization that are considered only paper? I've heard people say you can't pick your process. I mean wouldn't you be pissed if you worked your ass off on line and someone took the easy route.

[7BA94]

Of course I don't respect people who were made by signing their name and writing a check. If they wanted to just join a organization to do community service they could have joined the YMCA. The Y takes peoples money everyday. People who didn't pledge are simply not bruhs. There are simply others. They are not even real members of the organization. How could they be? They didn't earn anything. My parents told me a long time ago anything worth having you should earn. You should have to earn becoming a member of a fraternity or sorority.

[1Blonde]

I'm glad you broached this topic. Typically I'm a bystander, but after reading some of the posts in the other forums I just have to ask a few questions:
1. Is there any evidence that MIP, which several of you have indicated to be the breeding ground for Paper members, has hurt your organizations on a national level? Everyone says what a terrible thing it is but does anybody have data or proof to back it up? For example, have your organizations' projects been hindered in anyway since 1990 when most say the Paper intake began? If not what are we basing the anti-paper sentiment on? Is it a loss of tradition? Because on a local chapter by chapter basis traditions vary all the time and so does pledging in a lot of cases.

2. If you are upset about MIP isnt your anger misplaced? Shouldnt you be angry at your organization instead of the members your organization brings in? Thats like being upset with your kid sister because she didnt have it as rough as you did when your gripe should really be with your mom.

3. If you're upset with MIP can't some type of movement be initiated to reverse your organization's policy on pledging?

4. Does the process you went through resemble even remotely the process your founders went through? If it doesn't and the former was the original thing, arent you all faking anyway?

[7BA94]

My fraternity wasn't only built on community service it was also built on brotherhood. How can someone call someone else a brother or think they know a person in a weekend. Also how can 30 someones get to know everyone in a weekend? I don't think it's possible. Plus they didn't earn it. Has it hurt community service? Maybe not but if they wanted to do community service and not pledge those people could have joined a myriad of church or community organization and done the same thing without pledging a fraternity or sorority. I think for most organization you'd be amazed how similar pledge process are within that organization. I would be willing to be that a frat bruh. of mine on the west coast may not have the exact same experience but a very similar one. You are right though a movement should be made to change the MIP. The cause has been tried in the past and I am sure it will continue to be tried in the future.

[DELTABRAT]

Blonde1:

I can try to answer your questions.

1.No. Yes. No. Yes.

2.Perhaps.

3.Yes. Voting.

4.No. No.

PEACE

[1Blonde]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 7BA94:
[B]Of course I don't respect people who were made by signing their name and writing a check.
Do you respect the brothers that brought them in that way? Paper has to come from somewhere


If they wanted to just join a organization to do community service they could have joined the YMCA.
Don't most of you groups claim to be service oriented organizations? If youre saying that's not central to your purpose than you, poster, could have also joined the Crips or Hells Angels. They're organizations are remarkably similar to the kind you seem to idealize.

People who didn't pledge are simply not bruhs. There are simply others. They are not even real members of the organization.
Than how ridiculous is your organization for letting them in? If I allow some unworthy stranger in my house, who's the fool, me or him?


How could they be? They didn't earn anything.
This is interesting because they run the same argument against affirmative action.


My parents told me a long time ago anything worth having you should earn.
I agree with you here but I know several BGLO members who become inactive after they've earned it. Perhaps you should also start a crusade against that. Perhaps members should hold their organizations in enough esteem that earn never enters the past tense and people continue to work for their group throughout their membership

[DELTABRAT]

See what you started Soror?

Check my post in the Que Psi Phi Forum. I have very strong feelings about this but I have posted there because unregistered peoples can't just chime in and make comments about things they know very little about.

PEACE

[7BA94]

[quote]Originally posted by 1Blonde:
[b]

Originally posted by 7BA94:
Of course I don't respect people who were made by signing their name and writing a check.
Do you respect the brothers that brought them in that way? Paper has to come from somewhere


If they wanted to just join a organization to do community service they could have joined the YMCA.
Don't most of you groups claim to be service oriented organizations? If youre saying that's not central to your purpose than you, poster, could have also joined the Crips or Hells Angels. They're organizations are remarkably similar to the kind you seem to idealize.

People who didn't pledge are simply not bruhs. There are simply others. They are not even real members of the organization.
Than how ridiculous is your organization for letting them in? If I allow some unworthy stranger in my house, who's the fool, me or him?


How could they be? They didn't earn anything.
This is interesting because they run the same argument against affirmative action.


My parents told me a long time ago anything worth having you should earn.
I agree with you here but I know several BGLO members who become inactive after they've earned it. Perhaps you should also start a crusade against that. Perhaps members should hold their organizations in enough esteem that earn never enters the past tense and people continue to work for their group throughout their membership

No I do not respect the bruh. who brought them in that way. He disrepected himself by doing that.

No my organization is not similar to the crips or the hells angels. If you read the post, it said organization was founded for brotherhood and community service. The two go together. I am trying to make the point that if a person just wants to do community service they can join the YMCA or other community organization and stay out of my frat.

I agree it is ridiculous to let people in who don't pledge. That is why I am against it.

Almost always affirmative action is used for people who are qualified for the position. If you don't pledge, how do I know you are qualified.

I have said in past posts the hardest part about being an Alpha is the work you do after you cross.

[thatgirl]

What I don't understand is why Greeks look at new M.I.P. members that way. You can't be mad at a person for playing by the rules. That just doesn't make sense. People need to get their egos in check. Pledging is not legal in NPHC orgs. That's all there is to it. I must question a person's motives if they are willing to RISK expulsion from their 'beloved' org just so that they can SAY that they MADE somebody. Seriously, folks. That's a li'l crazy.

[1Blonde]

Then how can you respect your national organization? They're making all this possible. If its a matter of kow towing to lawsuits then doesnt that make your organization just plain cowardly? How can you respect your fraternity president? It seems like you all are shooting yourselves in the foot.

If you dont want the non registereds to voice in an opinion, then it 's simple: dont post here. You always take your chances of that happening when you do.

As far as being an outsider who doesnt know, look, if you have one or two friends in a black fraternity or sorority you've basically heard all the stories, heard all the talk and seen all the pledge pictures because you all may be secret societies but few of you know how to keep secrets very well.


It's interesting that you seem so set on seperating yourself from regular service groups since Ive often heard your kind promote themselves as just such. Also, there are different ways to come by a brotherhood or sisterhood. In my church, a sisterhood of women already exists just based on striving for a common ideal. Dont black people think of themselves as belonging to a brother hood based in similar culture? No kind of pledge activity per say took place in any of those examples. Maybe your ideas of brotherhood are too limited

[ManndingoNUPE]

Man, we beat this subject into the ground. I feel yawl on needing a process, but most of the time people don't have control over thier process.

I would agree that this MIP thing is for the birds. I hate it.

But this is a silly subject that is devisive not only in my frat, but I believe in all BGLOS. I could show you bros that have been to hell and back. Taken mad wood, kane, smile whipes, chair, (and sometimes just plain old street a$$ whipings to get into the frat. Now not all, but some of these same individuals won't even show thier faces at a grad meeting, won't show thier faces at a kommunity function. But when it's time to party, bag some women, or make some scrollers, they are the first ones in line. That to me is silly. Now in my opinion once a brother, always a brother (period), Regardless of what you do for the frat. But I have more respect for that person that walks in, and busts his a$$ doing comunity service, than the person who got his a$$ busted on line, and then does nothing for the frat. It's that simply.

We spend way too much time on this subject. Can anyone prove that the founders of your organization pledged? Would you call your founders skaters, or paper wieghts? And for any of you willing to say yes, I will beat your a$$ myself!

Respect a person for what they do for your organization, and what they bring too it. This subject sort of makes me angry, becuase we make or bring in thousands of young men every year, yet only a small portion stay active. I won't spout the numbers, but only a minute number of men are financial out of over a 100,000. Many of those 100,000 took that LONG journey to Kappa Land. But upon arrival, did nothing but sit on the very a$$ that just got beat for that journey.

Ok, I'm long winded, I am going to shut up now.

Peace

WL

[thatgirl]

Also, what is this 'Join the YMCA'? Makes no sense. If a person wants to be an XYZ, and the national legislation of XYZ CLEARLY says "No pledging, No hazing" then what do you expect them to do? Damn. Who runs it? Chapter or National? True, you bonded while you were on line and you wouldn't trade that experience for anything in the world, but damn. This "I GOTTA HAZE" sentiment is just too ridiculous. Couple years ago, a friend of mine (best friend, matter of fact) was home from school, and she was talking about her sorority. She says:

"We got a line going over in the Spring. I'm about to HAZE the F*** out of these little B******!"

What? That's not what sisterhood is about. Wake up.

[7BA94]

My ideals of brotherhood are limitless. I have brothers and sister on the human scale and brothers and sisters on the black family scale. I have people I call brother who I met through the military. That being said there is something unique and different that comes from the bruhs. I pledged with and who were pledged. If you have gone through it, you probably know what I mean. If not, I am not sure you can understand.

Plus nobody I mean nobody can take what a person has earned away from them not an individual, not a chapter, not a region, and not a national organization.

[7BA94]

Originally posted by thatgirl:
Also, what is this 'Join the YMCA'? Makes no sense. If a person wants to be an XYZ, and the national legislation of XYZ CLEARLY says "No pledging, No hazing" then what do you expect them to do? Damn. Who runs it? Chapter or National? True, you bonded while you were on line and you wouldn't trade that experience for anything in the world, but damn. This "I GOTTA HAZE" sentiment is just too ridiculous. Couple years ago, a friend of mine (best friend, matter of fact) was home from school, and she was talking about her sorority. She says:

"We got a line going over in the Spring. I'm about to HAZE the F*** out of these little B******!"

What? That's not what sisterhood is about. Wake up.

The national organization is wrong. MIP is the wrong law of the land. I'll take my lead from the civil rights leaders of the past if you believe something is wrong speak out about it.
The Nupe is right a process is needed and bruhs who don't do anything in the community need to be brought back into the fold. Although, I wouldn't go as far to say as someone who skated and does work is better than someone who didn't skate and does nothing, but that is my opinion. I also don't feel it causes division. I love all my frat bruhs. and on the fraternal level could care less about those others. As a frat of mine said, "I would rather kick it with a Que who pledged than someone who skated."

[1Blonde]

Its interesting that you were in the military and are also a fraternity member who so vehemently hates "paper".

Do you see a connection there? I think that says alot about you as an individual.