AL and NL MVP

moe.ron · #1 10-03-2005, 06:28 AM

Who are your choices for the MVP award for the respective leagues?

KSigkid · #2 10-03-2005, 07:03 AM

AL MVP - A-Rod. His offensive numbers overall are slightly better than Ortiz, and his defensive contribution puts him over the top. Big Papi had a great year, but numbers-wise A-Rod has been the best player in the American League for most of the season. In addition, he's been the only real consistent presence in the Yankees lineup this season (besides Jeter). The fact that the Yankees won the East may factor in as well.

NL MVP - Albert Pujols. Derek Lee is only slightly better than him with his numbers, and Albert plays for the best team in the National League. I think this will be the first of many MVP's for the big guy from St. Louis.

KSig RC · #3 10-03-2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSigkid
AL MVP - A-Rod. His offensive numbers overall are slightly better than Ortiz, and his defensive contribution puts him over the top. Big Papi had a great year, but numbers-wise A-Rod has been the best player in the American League for most of the season. In addition, he's been the only real consistent presence in the Yankees lineup this season (besides Jeter). The fact that the Yankees won the East may factor in as well.

I think Ortiz still wins this, because the BBWAA is made up of 'old guard' morons - and actually, you can make a really good case for both, but not for the reasons these guys will be using.

A-Rod leads the AL in VORP with a 100+ VORP season - just huge. Ortiz is at about 90, so it's not a massive gap - in terms of value, quite a bit of A-Rod's value comes from playing in the field - his VORP and WARP scores are essentially better than Ortiz by more than the amount that his fielding adds to these values.

Ortiz has better 'counting stats', A-Rod has a slight edge in OBP, ISO and EqA (which is obv made up of OBP and ISO, so no shock), Ortiz comes off as more 'clutch', A-Rod really helped his (poor) reputation this season with some big knocks . . .

Really, by the #s alone, it's definitely A-Rod - and as much as I love Mango Salsa (and since he'll probably win anyway), I think for this argument I have to at least say A-Rod.

Quote:

Originally posted by KSigkid
NL MVP - Albert Pujols. Derek Bell is only slightly better than him with his numbers, and Albert plays for the best team in the National League. I think this will be the first of many MVP's for the big guy from St. Louis.

Actually, Collin, this is somewhat disingenuous of you - Derek Lee (Nice Operation Shutdown typo though, you know I love it) has better numbers than Pujols by a margin basically as large as that between Rodriguez and Ortiz . . . Lee leads the planet in VORP (although only 1ish ahead of A-Rod and 3ish ahead of Pujols), has a better EqA, showed insane ISO and had even less protection than Pujols all season - and he did all this in about 20 fewer PA (even missing 3 weeks - he caught up in PAs!).

I say Derek Lee, under the same ideas as A-Rod - but again, Pujols will win.

The1calledTKE · #4 10-03-2005, 02:02 PM

AL David Ortiz

NL Andruw Jones

KSig RC · #5 10-03-2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The1calledTKE
NL Andruw Jones

Andruw Jones isn't even one of the TEN best players in the NL.

I'm serious.

The1calledTKE · #6 10-03-2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC
Andruw Jones isn't even one of the TEN best players in the NL.

I'm serious.

Maybe so stat wise besides homeruns. He carried the team when most his starting pitchers were hurt and when Chipper was hurt. If it was not for Andruw I highly doubt the Braves would have made the post season. I think the Cardinals would have made it without Pujols just with less wins.

It will be interesting so see how the voters vote. If they go by who helped or carried their team the most Andruw and David are probably the top contenders.

By overall stats Pujols and A-Rod probably got it.

Kevlar281 · #7 10-03-2005, 03:27 PM

NL - Morgan Ensberg

Go Stros!

KSig RC · #8 10-03-2005, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The1calledTKE
Maybe so stat wise besides homeruns. He carried the team when most his starting pitchers were hurt and when Chipper was hurt. If it was not for Andruw I highly doubt the Braves would have made the post season. I think the Cardinals would have made it without Pujols just with less wins.

It's not even about 'stat-wise' - it's about performance-wise. This has also been Jones's worst season in a decade in terms of defense. As far as 'carrying' the team, to my knowledge Jeff Francouer isn't up for any awards, and he was just as instrumental in 'carrying' a supposedly bad offensive team.

Per at bat, I'll argue that Chipper Jones actually contributed more offense.

The Braves were easily the best team in their division, and it wasn't close - they pretty much ran away with it in the second half, even through tons of injuries. I can't imagine how Jones was the 'most valuable' on that team compared to someone like Pujols, who lead his team in EVERY statistical category (including stolen bases! shit, he was top-3 in fielding runs added...) . . . not to mention Derek Lee, who was so far superior to every other offensive player on his team that you could argue the Cubs would have finished dead last without him - he may have contributed ELEVEN WINS over average. Do you really think Jones did that?

Again though, this comes down to the argument about what "most valuable" means - and the truly great thing about the award is that you and I can reach completely different conclusions and still be totally within the award's framework. God bless baseball.

Quote:

Originally posted by The1calledTKE
It will be interesting so see how the voters vote. If they go by who helped or carried their team the most Andruw and David are probably the top contenders.

By overall stats Pujols and A-Rod probably got it.

Again, I can't agree with your first conclusion, but that's because I look at 'contributed to team' differently - but all good.

The1calledTKE · #9 10-03-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC
As far as 'carrying' the team, to my knowledge Jeff Francouer isn't up for any awards

He has been mentioned as a contender for Rookie of the year even though he only played part of the season.

Thrillhouse · #10 10-03-2005, 06:26 PM

A-Rod although I have a feeling that Ortiz will get it. If I had a vote, I wouldn't give the award to a dh.

NL has to be Pujols slightly over Lee due to carrying a team with the best record in baseball.

KSigkid · #11 10-03-2005, 06:37 PM

I can't believe I typed Derek Bell, although it's pretty funny.

I hear you, my reasoning can't exactly be called valid - in the end though, I think Pujols gets the MVP. Andruw has the home runs, but his defensive play has fallen way off, and the rest of his numbers aren't up to par with the other guys.

These discussions are part of what I love about baseball.

BobbyTheDon · #12 10-03-2005, 06:44 PM

AL

I thinkAROD (even though he's a bitch/douchebag, a lipgloss, pussified bitch) but I hope Ortiz gets it (weird cuz I hate the Red Sox).

NL

Who cares.

Although I'll just go with "I am actually 32 but my birth certificate says I am 25 so that is my story and I am sticking with it Poojols"

Who will I be going for? Milton Bradley because Pornstache hates black people

sigtau305 · #13 10-03-2005, 08:29 PM

A.L. : Dave Ortiz

N.L. : Albert Pujols

hoosier · #14 10-04-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC
Andruw Jones isn't even one of the TEN best players in the NL.

I'm serious.

Based on importance to his team, you may be wrong.

KSig RC · #15 10-04-2005, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hoosier
Based on importance to his team, you may be wrong.

If you rate 'importance to his team' by intangible garbage like "he hit 50 jacks! he's the reason they're in the playoffs!" then I'm most certainly wrong.

If you rank him by the number of wins he contributed above his potential replacement, via statistical measure, then I'm most likely right.