"illegal imigration"

The Original Ape · #1 04-25-2005, 10:49 AM

Any thoughts on this subject???

SummerChild · #2 04-25-2005, 04:26 PM

interesting topic. do you mean the same thing as what is meant by "illegal alien"?

abaici · #3 04-25-2005, 04:32 PM

I'm from California, and this is a huge "problem". I'm pretty liberal when it comes to the issue of immigration, illegal or otherwise. Especially, when dealing with Mexico and California. These people are risking life and limb to come here. They are smuggling themselves (along with children) in rolled up carpets, trunks, and some simply run across the highway. I say, if you go through ALL OF THAT and make it, welcome. I also, believe that their children have the right to education. As for the argument about them taking jobs away from citizens, phooey. It's just not true.

SummerChild · #4 04-25-2005, 04:47 PM

Soror, I sent you a pm regarding another matter.
SC

Quote:

Originally posted by abaici
I'm from California, and this is a huge "problem". I'm pretty liberal when it comes to the issue of immigration, illegal or otherwise. Especially, when dealing with Mexico and California. These people are risking life and limb to come here. They are smuggling themselves (along with children) in rolled up carpets, trunks, and some simply run across the highway. I say, if you go through ALL OF THAT and make it, welcome. I also, believe that their children have the right to education. As for the argument about them taking jobs away from citizens, phooey. It's just not true.

Steeltrap · #5 04-25-2005, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by abaici
I'm from California, and this is a huge "problem". I'm pretty liberal when it comes to the issue of immigration, illegal or otherwise. Especially, when dealing with Mexico and California. These people are risking life and limb to come here. They are smuggling themselves (along with children) in rolled up carpets, trunks, and some simply run across the highway. I say, if you go through ALL OF THAT and make it, welcome. I also, believe that their children have the right to education. As for the argument about them taking jobs away from citizens, phooey. It's just not true.

I agree with this. Remember, they are taking jobs that no citizen, including those of color, will take.

The Original Ape · #6 04-26-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SummerChild
interesting topic. do you mean the same thing as what is meant by "illegal alien"?

Yes; I do. Do you agree with the president's policy? What is your personal take on the subject?

Professor · #7 04-26-2005, 03:24 PM

I have a different take on the issue. Most US citizens don't want low wage jobs. Employeers hire illegal aliens because they know they will accept whatever wage is provided. To that end, illegal aliens are taking jobs from US citizens.

Quote:

Originally posted by Steeltrap
I agree with this. Remember, they are taking jobs that no citizen, including those of color, will take.

Steeltrap · #8 04-26-2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Professor
I have a different take on the issue. Most US citizens don't want low wage jobs. Employeers hire illegal aliens because they know they will accept whatever wage is provided. To that end, illegal aliens are taking jobs from US citizens.

That was what I was trying to say. Most U.S. citizens won't take low wage jobs, even if their skill set only qualifies them for such work.
Here in California, I have read accounts where employers prefer undocumented workers because they perceive that those folks are easier to intimidate than say, citizens.

Professor · #9 04-26-2005, 03:46 PM

If employeers find it difficult to fill positions and keep employers they will raise the rate of pay. With illegal aliens willing to accept any rate of pay there is no incentive for employers to offer decent wages.

Steeltrap · #10 04-26-2005, 03:54 PM

^^
Good point, but I don't see that happening. The economy is far too dependent on very low wages to keep it going. I've seen it out here in Kollyfornia for years.

SummerChild · #11 04-27-2005, 03:29 PM

OA, what is the president's policy?
I feel like they should not be allowed to come into the country unless they do so by the established, legit means. Although our social welfare sucks, how much worse is it when we *really* don't have money to provide for illegal aliens b/c they are definitely not in the budget. I think that if they meet the criteria, however, they should be allowed in freely. I don't think that it's a matter of what jobs they take b/c in a generation, their children will be in college and their *children* will be competing for the same jobs as pre-existing citizens.

However, I do think that the policy should be same *across the board* for all immigrants. It seems like the Cubans in south Florida get a little bit of preferential treatment over the darker Haitians...both groups often try to get in illegally but the Haitians, it seems, are more routinely turned around. That needs to be equalized.

SC

Quote:

Originally posted by The Original Ape
Yes; I do. Do you agree with the president's policy? What is your personal take on the subject?

HederaNaturale · #12 04-27-2005, 08:02 PM

I agree with SummerChild sooo much. There are so many problems right now not only with the unnacceptably low wages (which exploits the illegal immigrants and puts them at a disadvantage more than anything) but also with overcrowded schools. I know here in NC and in some parts of Maryland, there is a problem with schools overcrowding almost as soon as they're opened and built because so many of the children in the area are undocumented. It's basically a lose-lose situation for all involved when there is an influx of people coming over illegally who basically have no rights and no means to get any. My best friend is actually doing research right now on immigrant law and affording illegal immigrants more options to "come out of the closet" and BECOME legal without immediately getting deported... I think thats a much more beneficial option than what Dubya is proposing.

AKA_Monet · #13 04-27-2005, 09:55 PM

Bush will not militarize the borders... Reagan did that in the 80's. It took 5-10 hours to cross the Mexican border because they strip searched each and every car.

Bush does not provide the $$$ that will be needed by the Border Patrol to patrol and repair the borders. What separates one border from another is a matter of how far you can jump a 3 foot creek or ditch...

Homeland Security along with the INS is suppose to be doing this job and then it gets slammed upon by the locals that have very little intelligence other than frontlines and no budget to cover the expenses.

I know of SEVERAL PEOPLE from both bordering countries that have sacrificed life and limb to come into this country and work. Some are skilled laborers and take on bullisht jobs, but work there way up into better jobs eventually getting green cards, etc. They have no need for citizenship, just the green card that affords them same opportunities as citizens--except the right to vote...

How hardcore will Dubya be? Well, if the Longshoremen in Long Beach, CA strike again, the US will be assed out a lot of money very fast with rising gas prices...

HederaNaturale · #14 04-27-2005, 10:03 PM

Monet, do you still live near the border? Do you know anything about these "militiamen" that take it upon themselves to patrol the Mexico-US border and shoot jumpers on sight?

I know there was a supposed to be an expose on these guys on one of the prime time news programs, but I missed it. I was just wondering if someone close to the situation had seen this kind of thing themselves, and how widespread is this?

AKA_Monet · #15 04-27-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HederaNaturale
Monet, do you still live near the border? Do you know anything about these "militiamen" that take it upon themselves to patrol the Mexico-US border and shoot jumpers on sight? I know there was a supposed to be an expose on these guys on one of the prime time news programs, but I missed it. I was just wondering if someone close to the situation had seen this kind of thing themselves, and how widespread is this?

I am no longer at the Southern Border of the US...

But I am now at the Northern Border of the US...

It is ironic about these militiamen, poppin' up and shooting folks... For the most part, the folks trying to make a run for the border aren't sittin' at the border doing the run for their families anymore--they do it by "box cars" and in back of semi truck beds--hence the massive die off when their caught...

The folks the actually run across the border are "teasers" to the border patrol... Pulling resources away so that they can get the "needful folks in"...

Sometimes there is the "kamikaze run" where they bumb-rush the border--but I dunno if they still do that now...

Mainly, there is some HUGE politics that is playing here that Bush would be VERY unwise to touch, 'cuz if he does, he will get slammed bigtime in the pocket--'specially since he's a nice Midland Texas boy... It would just be stoopid for him to play that game...

Like I said, Bush ain't gonna militarize the border even though it may take that for a bit of time till we get the Hoodland Psychiatry--I mean Homeland Security system up and running...

But if we do militarize the border, are we, as United States citizens prepared for the backlash we will get from other countries due to our actions?

And what about our "Trading partners"? What happened to NAFTA?

Hayle, China and the PacRim countries can hit us with an embargo and the Untied States will be unraveled--specially since we're at war...

I guess we'll be at Civil War...

Better have a "get outta jail free card", spelled VISA passport to jet when you see lunacy happening--only takes 2 hours to get to the border I am going to... And I can sing both "O Canada" and "The Mexican National Anthem"