Nuking question

[Rudey]

So if we lopped a nuke at North Korea, would they be able to find out and lop one at us or destroy all of Asia first?

And are there nukes where you control the area? Let's say we want to nuke Iran and don't want to have the whole region affect. Can you do anything like that?

-Rudey

[moe.ron]

Depend what kind of radar system they have.

As for the consequence of a nuclear attack, here is a gist of what will happen:

Short Term

Median Lethal Dose (LD50): When comparing the effects of various types or circumstances, that dose which is lethal to 50% of a given population is a very useful parameter. The term is usually defined for a specific time, being limited, generally, to studies of acute lethality. The common time periods used are 30 days or less for most small laboratory animals and to 60 days for large animals and humans. It should be understood that the LD50 assumes that the individuals did not receive other injuries or medical treatment.

Initial radiation from fallout can exceed 300 gray per hour (Gy/h) immediately downwind of a ground burst. A cumulative dose of 4.5 Gy is fatal to half of a population of humans. There have been no documented cases of survival beyond 6 Gy. Most people become ill after an exposure to 1 Gy or more. The fetuses of pregnant women are vulnerable and may miscarry, especially in the first trimester. Human biology resists mutation from large radiation exposure: grossly mutated fetuses usually miscarry. Civilian dose rates in peace-time range from 30 to 100 µGy/y.

Fallout radiation falls off ('decays') exponentially (quickly) with time. Most areas become safe for travel and decontamination after three to five weeks.

The most dangerous emissions from fallout are gamma rays, which travel in straight lines, like ordinary light. The fallout particles emit the invisible, deadly gamma rays in the same way that a light bulb emits light. Gamma rays are invisible, and cannot be seen, smelt, or felt. Special equipment is required to detect and measure gamma rays.

For yields of up to 10 kt, initial nuclear radiation is the dominant casualty producer on the battlefield. Humans receiving an acute incapacitation dose (30 Gy) will become performance degraded almost immediately and ineffective within several hours. However, they will not die until 5 to 6 days after exposure assuming they do not receive any other injuries which make them more susceptible to the radiation dose. Individuals receiving less than a total of 1.5 Gy will remain effective. Between those two extremes, people receiving doses greater than 1.5 Gy will become degraded; some will eventually die.

A dose of 5.3 Gy to 8.3 Gy is considered lethal but not immediately incapacitating. Personnel exposed to this amount of radiation will become performance degraded within 2 to 3 hours, depending on how physically demanding the tasks they must perform are, and will remain in this degraded state at least 2 days. However, at that point they will experience a recovery period and be effective at performing non-demanding tasks for about 6 days, after which they will relapse into a degraded state of performance and remain so for about 4 weeks. At this time they will begin exhibiting radiation symptoms of sufficient severity to render them totally ineffective. Death follows at approximately 6 weeks after exposure.
[edit]

Long Term

Late or delayed effects of radiation occur following a wide range of doses and dose rates. Delayed effects may appear months to years after irradiation and include a wide variety of effects involving almost all tissues or organs. Some of the possible delayed consequences of radiation injury are life shortening, carcinogenesis, cataract formation, chronic radiodermatitis, decreased fertility, and genetic mutations.

Link to the rest of Nuclear Fallout

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

re: region affect: obviously the bombs at Hiroshima & Nagasaki didnt destroy all of Japan or leave it coated in radiation. You only use the bombs on centers of dense population- not on the empty desert.

re: nuking DPRK: Well, I assume that China will take offense at that and send things towards us- primarily our military locations in SE Asia, maybe use it as a factor to declare war and take Taiwan back (for "homeland security purposes"). Depending on the damage of the first nuke, DPRK may be able to launch whatever it has towards Japan and/or ROK, but who knows what their accuracy would be? I doubt they could target an American military installation outside of ROK very well.

[PhiPsiRuss]

First Strike versus Second Strike
A first strike is not what it seems. It does not just refer to the first strike. It refers to taking out the opponents nuclear capability so that there can be no nuclear retaliation. What constitutes a first strike weapon? The traditional definition is that it must destroy a hardened silo at least 50% of the time, and be able to so in less than a half hour. Multiple warheads are budgeted for enemy silos, usually by a factor of 3 or 4 per silo.

In a classic scenario for a first strike, you attempt to take out all of the opponents nuclera assets. This scenario may also include decapitation as part of a first strike. Decapitation is where you also remove the C3 (command, control, and communications) of the enemy. After the first strike is executed, the CinC picks up the phone and asks for an unconditional surrender.

The first question would be, do we know where all of the North Korean nuclear assets are?

Nuclear Fallout and Radiation Dispersal Patterns
All nuclear weapons produce an enormous amount of radioactive material. The nastier the stuff, the shorter the half-life. Where does the fallout go? It moves with weather patterns. If Iran was nuked, Iraq would be safe. Afghanistan would not. If the U.S. was to nuke North Korea, we would have to calculate how the West Coast of the U.S. would be affected.

MAD versus FRS
Although this doesn't pertain to Iran or North Korea, it does demonstrate how nuclear policy changed during the Cold War. It also demonstrates how nuclear fallout factors into nuclear strategy. At one point, the United States and the Soviet Union both had policies of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD.) This is the promise that the second one side gets nuked, the other side retaliates with at least a complete first strike.

MAD was believed to have been abandoned during the Nixon Administration in favor of Flexible Response Strategy (FRS.) MAD was publicly, and officially replaced with FRS by President Carter. FRS is a variation of MAD that states that limited use of tactical nuclear weapons will be used in the event of an attack of overwhelming force of conventional weapons. By the time that FRS was being considered, the Warsaw Pact held a huge numerical advantage in conventional weapons over NATO. How could detante be maintained? By deploying tactical nuclear weapons to Germany. This was a credible threat (and credibility is extremely important with deterrance.) The Warsaw Pact could not dredibly deploy tactical weapons to that theater. Why? Weather patterns. Any nuclear detonation on German soil would leave most of Western Europe unaffected, but Moscow would get nuclear fallout. For the Soviet Union to detonate multiple nuclear weapons on German soil, they would be killing millions of their own.

If anyone remembers the Pershing and Pershing II nuclear weapons, they were created for FRS.

[DeltAlum]

I thought this was going to be about microwaving leftovers for lunch.

[AlphaSigOU]

Nuking the DANKs (Dumb-Assed North Koreans): Much of the Korean peninsula, especially the north is very mountainous and rugged, making it imperative for a precise, surgical strike against DANK targets to be near 100%. Secondly, we could piss off China, who is the 800-pound gorilla in the area. And if we piss 'em off badly enough, they can hose off a couple of nukes in the direction of California or Hawaii. Thirdly, we could scare the living shit outta Japan, who can easily turn around and say 'we've got nukes for self-defense'.

If you wanna get an idea on how the US nuke war plan is created (based on some very educated guesses, since the SIOP (Single Integrated Operational Plan) is highly classified) read the following from the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC): The U.S. Nuclear War Plan: A Time For Change

[FHwku]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I thought this was going to be about microwaving leftovers for lunch.

The leftovers are in political turmoil. after a successful miltary coup, in-house battles for power within the new structure have left a vacuum. however, with no single party being strong enough, the continuing feuding, and refusals to form alliances, it will be a void left unfilled.

the pizza, spaghetti, and lassagna will be the first strike targets. but there's rumors that the meatballs are trying to buy a nuked sub from the chop suey.

[AlphaSigOU]

Nuke 'em 'til they glow, then eat 'em in the dark! (Leftovers, that is.)

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by AlphaSigOU
Nuke 'em 'til they glow, then eat 'em in the dark! (Leftovers, that is.)

Remember to eat nuke food immediately. If you leave it alone too long, it become hard.

[KillarneyRose]

slightly off topic

When Mr. KR was in the Navy, he used to wear something called a thermolumiscent docimeter (TLD) attached to his belt to monitor how much radiation (I guess?) he absorbed during the day.

I always thought it would have been really funny to see what would have happened if I had put the TLD in the microwave

/slightly off topic

[DeltAlum]

I was re-reading some Tom Clancy the other night and came across a line I've posted before:

(perhaps slightly paraphrased)

"We should turn the Bekka Valley into a parking lot, and when it cools down, send in the Marines to paint the lines."