Two 3rd graders charged with a felony over violent stick figure drawings...

[RUgreek]

Mother praises arrests in drawings of her son

Two Ocala Children Charged With Felonies Over Violent Drawings

Two boys were arrested for making pencil-and-crayon stick figure drawings depicting a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung, police said. The children, charged with a felony, were taken from school in handcuffs.

The 9- and 10-year-old boys were arrested Monday and charged with making a written threat to kill or harm another person. They were also suspended from school.

One drawing showed the two boys standing on either side of the other boy and "holding knives pointed through" his body, according to a police report. The figures were identified by written names or initials.

Another drawing showed a stick figure hanging, tears falling from his eyes, with two other stick figures standing below him. Other pieces of scrap paper listed misspelled profanities and the initials of the boy who was allegedly threatened.

The boys' parents said they thought the children should be punished by the school and families, not the legal system.

______________________________________________

Oh, and I saw the picture...




Is it me or is the entire world getting out of fucking control with chilrdren?!?!? What's next, a poor little kindergartener files civil charges against the class bully? Leave the kids alone already, for crying out loud they need to deal with these social issues on their own.

And the pictures are ridiculous, I'm sorry if anyone here agrees with the police or is oversensitive to pictures of violence. But I mean COME ON NOW!!!


RUgreek

[Rio_Kohitsuji]

Hmm.....I tutor a boy named C.J.


But anyway...they are boys...boys do that..hell..I did that.
Welcome to the new Educational system!

[Dionysus]

I don't think they should've been charged for felonies, but I think that drawing should've been taken very seriously. Kids do act out on stuff like this on occasion. I had a classmate in eighth grade who plotted to drown me at pool party, good thing I overheard her and did not show up. Totally scary.

[ZTAngel]

Originally posted by Dionysus
I don't think they should've been charged for felonies, but I think that drawing should've been taken very seriously.

I agree.
I know that kids will be kids and they sometimes do this kind of stuff but these drawings are pretty graphic. It's all over the news here in Orlando (Ocala is only a few miles away) so I heard about this a few days ago. This kid had been getting bullied, picked on, and threatened for a while by these boys.
I think we've all drawn pictures of classmates when we were younger. I know I drew some mean pictures of some of mine (but that's because I was snotty ). BUT.... I never drew a picture that showed me stabbing my classmate and blood pouring out of them. I never drew pictures that depicted me killing or harming a student. I think the meanest thing I did when it came to cartoon classmates was drawing a picture of the smelly kid (every elementary school classroom has one) killing everyone else in the class from his stench. The teacher made me sit in the corner for that one. hmpf.
I don't think the authorities arrested these kids to punish them and make them do jail time. I think the main reason was to curtail any violent tendencies before it got out of hand. These kids have bullied this boy before and have made threats. Their pictures are pretty brutal. What happens when these kids are 15 years old? Will it stay just a cartoon drawing? We don't know and I don't think the authorities wanted to take that chance. The point was to let these kids know now, when they're young, that this is unacceptable.

[RUgreek]

you can't arrest people, especially kids, because you're afraid of what they might do. Kids today have more graphic video games and movies to copy off of when they draw as opposed to the commodore or atari games we had (ok, i had nintendo, but anyway). The games and graphic violence on tv give them these ideas, that's the difference between drawing of yesterday and today.

Children can't be protected 24/7. I'm not saying drop your kids off in the bad neighborhoods and tell 'em dinner will be ready at 6, but what goes on in school should be dealt with by parents and teachers, not the police. A threatening drawing is bad, but to charge a 10 year old with a felony is not going to be very productive in teaching these kids right and wrong. If they want to fight, let them. We should not be raising a generation of wimps and cry babies because other kids are being "mean."

I don't think these are murderers in training and this drawing is not a smoking gun to another columbine disaster. It's kids, plain and simple, being kids. Taunting, teasing, and bullying someone else.

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Jesus. Some school administrator is a moron. Of course- so are the damned Zero-Tolerance policies.
If incidents were looked at on a case-by-case basis the school could have easily said to the parents "your children need to go through some counseling sessions or we will need to suspend them for a school year" and with just simple counseling this would be over.

The good thing is the media coverage may raise discussion over the stupidity of Zero-Tolerance in elementary schools.

[Honeykiss1974]

Instead of charging them with felonies, how about intensive counseling instead? These two students (which the article labels as special education students) probably need that more than anything else. I agree with their parents. If they are to be punished, it should be just by the school system.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by ZTAngel
I agree.
I know that kids will be kids and they sometimes do this kind of stuff but these drawings are pretty graphic. It's all over the news here in Orlando (Ocala is only a few miles away) so I heard about this a few days ago. This kid had been getting bullied, picked on, and threatened for a while by these boys.
I think we've all drawn pictures of classmates when we were younger. I know I drew some mean pictures of some of mine (but that's because I was snotty ). BUT.... I never drew a picture that showed me stabbing my classmate and blood pouring out of them. I never drew pictures that depicted me killing or harming a student. I think the meanest thing I did when it came to cartoon classmates was drawing a picture of the smelly kid (every elementary school classroom has one) killing everyone else in the class from his stench. The teacher made me sit in the corner for that one. hmpf.
I don't think the authorities arrested these kids to punish them and make them do jail time. I think the main reason was to curtail any violent tendencies before it got out of hand. These kids have bullied this boy before and have made threats. Their pictures are pretty brutal. What happens when these kids are 15 years old? Will it stay just a cartoon drawing? We don't know and I don't think the authorities wanted to take that chance. The point was to let these kids know now, when they're young, that this is unacceptable.

What happens when they're 15? Let's examine:

-since this form of 'prevention' (the 'scared straight' theory) has been shown to be largely ineffective, by the time they're 15 whatever 'tendencies' they exhibit (which I'm not convinced they've exhibited any) have not been dealt with

-since the children have already had a run-in with police officers that resulted in little more than 'scare tactics' from the shields, the children will have a tendency to associate that experience with police (and thus lose a sense of consequences from police).

-other children (AND THEIR PARENTS, more importantly) who have witnessed the events here will be more apt to rely on the police, rather than the outlets designed especially for this purpose. This is an undue strain on the police, takes them away from actual issues, and also may have 'weakening' effects on the actual teacher/principal/staff/counselor resources that should be handling cases like this (at least up until the point it gets out of hand).


For me, the bottom line is that harsh consequences just don't prevent violent acts - this has been proven time and again. Why subject a 9 year old to handcuffing and police intervention? Are we that weak with regard to schools, parents, and psychological counseling?

I see where ZTAngel and Dionysis are coming from, but I think we're lowing the bar to an absurd level here. Even if we're not, this is a completely inappropriate way to 'solve' or address the problem, at least from a science standpoint.

It's a tough situation - there seems to be some 'building' of these types of problems, in that they get more numerous and severe as time progresses. I think it's a spiral effect, where the worse we handle the situations, the more they occur. I think this is just an unintelligent, uninformed decision on the part of the school and parents.

[chideltjen]

My mom used to work with children with behavior problems and couldn't be included in classrooms. I'm sure she saw a lot of violence from the children, as it was apparent when she came home every day with bruises.

But I don't think sending these children to prison is going to straighten them out. In fact, it may make things worse. Depending on the abilities of the child, I don't think shutting them in a cold prison will do much for their already hightened senses. But what do I know.

In today's world, as RUGreek pointed out, we have life-like violent video games and movies and so forth. In fact when he was a child, my brother used to draw pictures of guys with big guns shooting other people. He turned out fine.

Yes, I think the drawing should have been given attention, but to send the kids to prison over it? Seems a little much.

[RUgreek]

These kids went to juvenile detention, not prison, but same thing, just a lower percentage of axe murderers and sex offenders...

For this situation, there is nothing to indicate these kids have behavior problems or are prone to commit violent acts. All that happened was a drawing was discovered and it triggered a very ridiculous statute. If you ask me, regardless of the depiction the drawing is describing, any pictures kids make do not reach a threshold in my head that would justify an arrest. Thoughts on paper are not the act itself.

The parents that think this is right are just setting their kids up for a lifetime of disappoint and difficulty. Give the kids a chance to work out their problems. Eh, but this is only my opinion and I don't know much about childhood development. Someone is going to tell me that medication is the best choice for these soon-to-be mass murderers....

[cash78mere]

the kids absolutely should have gotten counseling and maybe a day or 2 of suspension. that is typical school policy.

they should not have been taken to a juvenile detention center. that's a little extreme.

bullying should be taken very seriously. kids have a lot of access to guns, knives etc. what used to be a little roughhousing isn't the same any more. kids bring guns and knives to school. these instruments hurt and kill. so a drawing of 2 boys killing another student absolutely needs to be addressed seriously.

[cash78mere]

Originally posted by RUgreek

what goes on in school should be dealt with by parents and teachers, not the police.

that statement is incorrect. there are many incidents at schools that REQUIRE police being involved including violence, etc.

this incident, however, doesn't require police intervention in my opinion.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by RUgreek
Someone is going to tell me that medication is the best choice for these soon-to-be mass murderers....

If they're not already on it. Sadly, medication is often the first line of defense in cases of students with "behavioral problems," when it should be a last resort if it is used at all.

Regarding "zero-tolerance" policies in school districts, it annoys me to no end that the same rules are created and enforced for any school in a district. What is criminal coming from a 15-year old isn't the same for a 7-year old; some counties just need to realize that.

[RUgreek]

Originally posted by cash78mere
that statement is incorrect. there are many incidents at schools that REQUIRE police being involved including violence, etc.

this incident, however, doesn't require police intervention in my opinion.

Try not to take my sentences literally and seperately. Look at the whole post in its entirety as well as the topic being discussed. My comments will change from situation to situation.

Columbine=police intervention in a school.
Stick figure drawings=no police.

We're not talking about gang related violence here, only little kids being immature.


RUgreek