Report: U.S. Marine Kills Wounded Iraqi

[moe.ron]

Link to the Article

Discuss among yourself

[Pike1483]

"Sites reported a Marine in the same unit had been killed just a day earlier when he tended to the booby-trapped dead body of an insurgent."

That's all the justification I need. Last I heard these insurgents were the enemy, and the enemy was killed. Boo hoo. Get over it.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Pike1483
"That's all the justification I need. Last I heard these insurgents were the enemy, and the enemy was killed. Boo hoo. Get over it.

So we should bring ourselves down to their level?

See, "Calley, Lt. William."

We're supposed to be the good guys here.

[AlphaSigOU]

I gotta agree with you, DeltAlum. Until the investigation proves otherwise, let's give the Marine the benefit of the doubt. If it turns out that it was intentional, throw the f*ckin' book at 'im!

Likewise, I gotta also agree with Pike1483 - the insurgents are the enemy and they need to be killed dead. However, if they are wounded or surrender, that's no excuse to whack 'em. Marines oughta know better concerning the Laws of Armed Combat.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by AlphaSigOU
...the insurgents are the enemy and they need to be killed dead.

Yep. And "they" have committed a lot of real atrocities, but if this story was about an insurgent killing a helpless U.S. Marine, we would be outraged. And we should.

Of course I agree with your comment about giving the Marine involved the benefit of the doubt until the alleged event is proven.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Yep. And "they" have committed a lot of real atrocities, but if this story was about an insurgent killing a helpless U.S. Marine, we would be outraged. And we should.

Of course I agree with your comment about giving the Marine involved the benefit of the doubt until the alleged event is proven.

From the unedited video footage I'd have to say it doesn't look good for the Marine... particularlly for what he says after the shooting; he realizes that he what he did was wrong - the legal folks will be all over that.

[Rudey]

Somewhat related to this incident:

What is the point of observing certain "humanitarian" protocols with these prisoners?

Generally it makes sense if the US says hey we know the French would torture our prisoners if we torture theirs, but coalition troops are getting massacred and treated brutally and I don't see why we have to observe these protocols?

-Rudey

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by AlphaSigOU
I gotta agree with you, DeltAlum. Until the investigation proves otherwise, let's give the Marine the benefit of the doubt. If it turns out that it was intentional, throw the f*ckin' book at 'im!

My sentiments exactly.

[DeltAlum]

So, if nobody knows about it, did it really happen?

"Fallujah Video Has Congressman Calling For Reporter Ban
Associated Press

CAPITOL HILL - The videotaped shooting of a Fallujah combatant by a US Marine has evoked strong emotions in the Arab world and on Capitol Hill.

Texas Democrat Sylvestre Reyes says it's time to rethink the presence of embedded reporters in combat zones. During a hearing of the House Armed Services Committee, Reyes compared it to a football game, saying "we don't want to know everything that's going on the field." Reyes says this is not censorship. In his words, "We should not be providing the Al-Jazeera the kind of propaganda they've had the last couple of three days."

Marine Corps commandant General Michael Hagee disagrees, saying embedded reporters have actually worked very well and inform the American public about "what these great young Americans are doing over there."

[RACooper]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
So, if nobody knows about it, did it really happen?

"Fallujah Video Has Congressman Calling For Reporter Ban
Associated Press

CAPITOL HILL - The videotaped shooting of a Fallujah combatant by a US Marine has evoked strong emotions in the Arab world and on Capitol Hill.

Texas Democrat Sylvestre Reyes says it's time to rethink the presence of embedded reporters in combat zones. During a hearing of the House Armed Services Committee, Reyes compared it to a football game, saying "we don't want to know everything that's going on the field." Reyes says this is not censorship. In his words, "We should not be providing the Al-Jazeera the kind of propaganda they've had the last couple of three days."

Marine Corps commandant General Michael Hagee disagrees, saying embedded reporters have actually worked very well and inform the American public about "what these great young Americans are doing over there."

I've heard about tools like this... people that have attacked the reporter's character and called him a traitor because he reported this incident. The level of stupidity that this line of reason requires you to hold to is unfathomable to me (even after 11 pints).

Basically my worry is this: without incidents like this being reported, or recorded then they will not be procecuted... and that is one giant step in losing both the moral/ethical highground and the locals hearts & minds.

Alright, here's the deal.

All soldiers are taught that's wrong to shoot an injured combatant. We all understand that once an enemy is wounded if they don't make an aggressive move, they are to be considered a non-combatant. I believe shooting an injured enemy is called a "Double Tap". In ROTC it was the worst thing you could do. For instance, were we on a training exercise and you committed one, it's called a Black Spot. It goes in your permanent ROTC record and will be considered at your acessions meeting and every evaluation point after that.

That being said. This is war. This is vastly different then Lt. Calley ordering his troops to slaughter men, women and children in a village.

This is a soldier, that was engaged at the time with an enemy. An enemy that has over the course of the war shown NO regard for human life. I understand that we are expected to observe Geneva convention policies, but, these are people that are beheading innocents, INNOCENTS! They are not capturing soldiers and beheading them, they are beheading NON-COMBATANTS. In addition, these insurgents have been known to booby trap themselves if wounded and turn into suicide bombers. In that respect, i can't blame the Marine in this situation too much.

Also, we don't know all the facts, we don't know what exactly the person on the floor was doing, the camera is trained on him at all times. During normal EPW procedures, you have one soldier inspecting the wounded, while his battle buddy has his weapon trained on the EPW, ready to fire if he makes a suspicious movement, i.e., i'm searching the guy and ktsnake is my buddy, with his M-16 trained on the guy. You can bet your ass that if the guy reaches into his shirt suddenly, i want kt to pull the trigger instantly and end it. And that's in a sterile, training situation, i have no idea the pressures that actual combat troops are under.

So, its all fine and good for us to lament this and the negative reaction it causes with Arabs. But at the same time, we don't know. By doing that, the Marine may have saved lives. Not only of himself, but his buddy, the rest of the Marines in there, any Marines that this guy could have escaped and later attacked, hell, possibly even the reporter in question.

So, pardon me if i have a hard time finding sympathy for the scumbag.

KS 361

[moe.ron]

Do you know for certain that this particular individual were involved with the same groups that are beheading the hostages? One of my pet peeves about the coverages is the lack of actual analysis on what groups are actually out there. The media is being lazy and have painted every group as one entity.

As for the soldier, I will wait until the investigation is done. If he is found to be innocent, move on. If he is found guilty, of to prison.

[AlphaSigOU]

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
I believe shooting an injured enemy is called a "Double Tap". In ROTC it was the worst thing you could do.

A 'Double Tap' is actually a rapid-fire shooting technique originated by the British SAS and adopted by special forces and tactical teams throughout the world. Quickest way to knock down and kill the enemy before he even knew what happened.

Shooting an injured, unarmed enemy is a direct violation of the Geneva and the Hague Conventions.

[KillarneyRose]

We don't know all the facts yet, so I think we shouldn't judge until we do.

[RACooper]

I suggest that some of the posters on GC should try to find a copy of the un-edited video of the incident... you can watch the unit enter the Mosque in open order (ie. not tactically), watch them move around the room securing the area, listen to the Marine in question make jokes about the prostrate man faking being dead (ie. he's still breathing), then raise his rifle and shoot him, then make a follow-up joke (ie. he's not breathing anymore)...

This might remove some of the misguided attempts to explain away the Marine's action.

Here is a link to the BBC site that had the video:
BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4014901.stm