Can Blacks rise together?

[Exquisite5]

"You can't rise as a class. You have to rise individually. It's what many of the civil rights-era people don't understand," he said. "They want us to rise together, they keep telling us that we are victims. If they keep telling us they are victims, then there is a role for them to play."


The preceding quote was stated by Housing and Urban Development Secretary Alphonso Jackson. He was speaking out against Jesse Jackson and Julian Bond who, according to him have convinced Blacks that we have been victimized and must vote Democratic because then a white liberal can save us.

I'm not trying to get into that part of his conversation, I just found this the first part of his assertion very interesting. Do you think Blacks can rise as a class? Are we too far gone for that? Must we rise individually in hopes that over time it will be a majority of us that have risen, and then as a class we will be financially and politically independent? Or, is this just an excuse for us to foster elitism and leave the most needy, often most disfranchised and sold out by the system behind?

Now, as a law student the legal argument on which the premsie of "individual" rising is based just smells to me like typical "individual remedy" jurisprudence that Scalia and his buddies (read Clarence Thomas) use to justify picking apart Affirmative Action, saying remedies for discrimination should be individually given as specific isolated litigation arrises instead of remedies given to the AfAm group as a whole (like affirmative action or reparations).

But on a social context, I'm not so sure. Are at a point where we must go back to W.E.B.'s talented tenth? Is this really the best way to move ahead?

If you'd like to read the rest of the article which furhter analyzes Sec. Jackson's assertions and why Kerry has lost 10 points since Aug. amongst AfAms click this link:Jackson article .

However, I really wasn't trying to start a debate about Blacks and repubs v. dems. I am really concerned however by the assertion that we can't rise together: what do you think?

[Steeltrap]

ETA: My 5,000th post.

And I've got no easy answers. There are class differences within the community which I think that many of us don't want to acknowledge because we are sensitive to being seen as elitist snobs.

From talking to older people, particularly my parents (MamaTrap and DaddyTrap when he was alive), their friends and older sorors, etc., it seems that civil rights advances really only benefited people who were prepared to take advantage of the opportunities that were out there in education, jobs, etc. That's why I'm a firm advocate of education.

I don't mind helping people who want to improve their station in life. But they also have got to take responsiblity for some of their own actions. Namely, if you can't raise kids w/o assistance, don't have them. Seek resources out at school, including learning how to speak standard English. And for Gawsake, learn that there's a time and place, if you must, for "keeping it real," and that doesn't include school or the workplace.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by Exquisite5
Do you think Blacks can rise as a class? Are we too far gone for that? Must we rise individually in hopes that over time it will be a majority of us that have risen, and then as a class we will be financially and politically independent? Or, is this just an excuse for us to foster elitism and leave the most needy, often most disfranchised and sold out by the system behind? I am really concerned however by the assertion that we can't rise together: what do you think?

At this point in my life, and where I am living now, I have no idea...

Some time ago (and if you search some of my past posts--especially the Afrikan Centered ones), I would have said as people of African descent, we cannot rise alone in this current world...

However, with things as they are today, what is "rising" and who is an "individual"???

I think we are in the "state" we are in with all the "bling bling" and "me.com" mentality. Given that most of us are "consumers" of the world's resources and not "investors" of the world's resources then how else could we rise together on anything? Much less agree on something?

Then there is something to say about greed, and the virtue of it...

[Jody]

I agree with the HUD secretary and Bill Cosby. I have a relative who doesn't have her children because she chose crack cocaine. She had a difficult childhood but from 5th grade on lived with another relative who exposed her to a different lifestyle. She did really well in high school and was like a science whiz. How did she get where she is now? My cousin is living the lifestyle SHE CHOSE.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Some of us just chose not be contributing members of a society.

[Eclipse]

I don't thnk it is an either/or situation. There are things that impact us ALL --from Kenneth Chanault, Richard Parsons, and Oprah Winfrey on down. Shoot, Kenny, Dicky and O wouldn't be where they are today with out a "collective"mentality.

MLK was part of the Black elite. he could have sat back and enjoyed his cushy minister's job with his congregation full of teachers and lawyers but he didn't. There is still some "collective" rising that that needs to be done. Inner city schools are woefully under funded. People are still denying jobs to the (qualified) Tyrones and Tamekas of the world to give them to Tommy and Tammy just 'cause. This does not, however, obsolve people of their individual responsiblity. Parents in the inner city still need to make sure their kids go to school ready to learn. They still need to make sure that homework is done. Tyrone and Tameka still need to come correct.

We also need to understand that because we have made it as individuals we have a responsibility to help other rise as well.

[Confucius]

Originally posted by Eclipse
I don't thnk it is an either/or situation. There are things that impact us ALL --from Kenneth Chanault, Richard Parsons, and Oprah Winfrey on down. Shoot, Kenny, Dicky and O wouldn't be where they are today with out a "collective"mentality.

MLK was part of the Black elite. he could have sat back and enjoyed his cushy minister's job with his congregation full of teachers and lawyers but he didn't. There is still some "collective" rising that that needs to be done. Inner city schools are woefully under funded. People are still denying jobs to the (qualified) Tyrones and Tamekas of the world to give them to Tommy and Tammy just 'cause. This does not, however, obsolve people of their individual responsiblity. Parents in the inner city still need to make sure their kids go to school ready to learn. They still need to make sure that homework is done. Tyrone and Tameka still need to come correct.

We also need to understand that because we have made it as individuals we have a responsibility to help other rise as well.

I came back to this post a few times because I was not sure how I wanted to articulate my viewpoint. But I think we are on the same page with this issue. This is a very complicated and multi-layered question. Well done Eclipse.

[Imperial1]

Not with all these fake revolutionaries roaming around everywhere we will not rise together.

Imperial1

[Exquisite5]

Originally posted by Imperial1
Not with all these fake revolutionaries roaming around everywhere we will not rise together.

Imperial1

I am sincerely asking the following question out of curiousity- what makes someone a fake revolutionary?

What are the characteristics?

No easy answers indeed.

While integration opened up doors and provided access to resources it did not provide a detailed roadmap to being a self sufficient people.

We've developed a severe case of elitism. In the same vein some disenfranchised blacks have developed a quite extraordinary disdain for African Americans that have worked to improve their position in life.

In order to rise as a people the African American Diaspora must realize that the only way to grow is to actively seek out and engage others so that you can understand exactly what it is that they value. Too often people want to offer and extend their view of happiness to others without fully attempting to understand the wants and desires of those that they are helping.

It's doubtful, in my opinion, that this will happen within the next decade. It seems as if African Americans need a common struggle to embrace in order to work together as a unified and collective unit.

I, however, how no answers and can only provide commentary. My only suggestion is that you pck up and embrace one issue that you feel is hindering our community and become a committee of one. Become an expert on and a champion of that one issue.

Kind of on the topic, but this post had me thinking about a conversation I had with a male aquaintance. He was asking me questions like, "Don't you want to be well off and not in debt to anyone". My reply was of course. That when he was like, same here, but its not going to happen living here (Upstate NY). He said to think about moving to ATL, like he might do. Because there our people help each other out...

My thought was however, well why can't we do that here? Help each other out to rise above? You shouldn't have to move to a different state just to have people help rise.

Obvious answer is the whole "me" state of mind.

In my opinion you have to rise as an individual first before we can as a class. We have to rise above that " It's all about me and my status" thing. Then we can rise together as a class.

Will it happen anytime soon though....probably not.

The sad thing is that it happens within our own families. I have seen it where one silbling is making it well. But isn't trying to help the sibling that just hasn't had the luck they had. The sibling didn't make bad choices like drugs or dropping out of school. They're just having a rought time of it. Own peoples so into the "me" status, they don't give the struggling sibling the time of day. I see this ALOT where I'm from.

[sigtau305]

Originally posted by laidbackfella


In order to rise as a people the African American Diaspora must realize that the only way to grow is to actively seek out and engage others so that you can understand exactly what it is that they value. Too often people want to offer and extend their view of happiness to others without fully attempting to understand the wants and desires of those that they are helping.

Co-Sign.

[Imperial1]

Too many fake revolutionaries and cravings of materialistic things for us to ever come together.

Imperial1

[Exquisite5]

Originally posted by Imperial1
Too many fake revolutionaries and cravings of materialistic things for us to ever come together.

Imperial1

Again, I ask- what are the characteristics of a fake revolutionary?

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by UMgirl
That when he was like, same here, but its not going to happen living here (Upstate NY). He said to think about moving to ATL, like he might do. Because there our people help each other out...

Errr......hate to burst his bubble, but Atlanta ain't the Negro utopia. Don't get me wrong, Atlanta is a great city, and besides the traffic, I don't think there is anywhere else I want to live, but it's not like you move to Atlanta and all of a sudden you are hanging out with Shirley Franklin and Andy Young.

[Dionysus]

As of right now....IMPOSSIBLE.

There is sooo much tension within the black community. I don't see how anything will get accomplished when everyone is going their separate ways. I agree with laidbackfella, there will have to be an issue that affects ALL blacks, in order for us to unify.

On the other hand, I don't believe that every black deserve a helping hand....as with anyone else. I STRONGLY believe that there are some blacks who do not want to help themselves and will do anything in their power to tear down others who do want to help themselves. It will be a waste of time and energy to try to help anyone of this mentality. I don't think you should feel guilty if you turn your back on that relative who sucks at life and doesn't want to do anything to help him/herself.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is a middle ground. I think trying to look out for everyone is almost as bad as looking out only for yourself.