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  #1  
Old 06-07-2004, 02:54 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Thumbs up New Housing Fl St!

From hoosier a member of TKE



New housing at FL State
The Bob Kellam quoted is a former TKE Staff Member

Posted on Fri, Apr. 16, 2004

Complex to replace cramped quarters

Heritage Grove will soon have room for 13 student groups
By Aetna Smith
DEMOCRAT STAFF WRITER


Lambda Chi Alpha's fraternity house - currently home to 17 members - is within walking distance of Florida State University on tree-lined Park Avenue. Cars owned by the fraternity brothers are jammed next to each other in the front yard.

But in August, about 60 Lambda Chi members are expected to move into the fraternity's new home at the $25.5 million Heritage Grove complex on Ocala Road. The new development, set on 37 acres, will accommodate Lambda Chi and up to 12 other student groups in separate residential buildings and clubhouses. And with more than 1,000 spaces, it will have parking to spare.

John Roveda, a 19-year-old Lambda Chi brother, said he's excited about moving to the brand-new digs.

"But I'm going to miss this place - it's become home," he said of the 49-year-old house on Park Avenue that the fraternity has occupied since 1980.

On a recent day, Roveda, a business major, pointed out the bed he made of plywood. Across from his desk was a wood-burning fireplace. Clothing, linen and textbooks littered the floor and couch.

"With the new house, everything's going to be really nice. So I'll try not to mess anything up," he said.

The development, open to any FSU student group, will mainly be home to Greek fraternities. So far, 11 fraternities have signed up to rent or purchase buildings at Heritage Grove.

Groups planning to rent facilities paid a $20,000 deposit, while those that will own their homes - known as equity partners - each invested hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Up to 684 residents will have their own bedrooms and often private bathrooms in their apartment-style buildings. Each group's private chapter house will serve as the main social area.

The land at the Ocala Road complex is owned by the state, but has been leased to the Leon County Educational Facilities Authority. The authority will lease apartment and chapter buildings to up to eight student groups, considered non-equity partners. So far, there are six such partners.

Construction at Heritage Grove started this past fall. Dennis Tribble, president of LLT Corp., said the complex is 50-percent complete. Capstone/LLT is the project's developer.

At the site this week, more than 100 construction workers, contracted by Capstone Building Corp., worked to install red and brown brick on two residential and two chapter-house buildings for rentals. These residential buildings will each have 24 two-bedroom, two-bath apartments. Each apartment will be about 800 square feet.
Workers covered the sandy-colored wood frame of a three-story apartment building with gypsum board. Next, they'll install insulation on the interior walls, said Brandon Loyd, Capstone's assistant project manager.

The five fraternities that will own their buildings have commissioned their own architects and builders. Those houses will look different from the rentals and from one another.

Doug Mannheimer, a local attorney and the Lambda Chi house corporation president, said he and Andy Miller, Seminole Boosters president and house corporation president for Pi Kappa Alpha, first began to consider new fraternity housing about five years ago. Pi Kappa Alpha also will own a home at the new complex.

"We wanted to try to find a way to build frat housing with apartment-style living that would be properly managed and maintained," Mannheimer said. "We wanted Greek housing we could be proud of."
Sororities may not be as interested in relocating to the new development, because their houses are usually better maintained than fraternities, Mannheimer said.

To pay for the development, the Leon County Educational Facility Authority floated $20 million in tax-free bonds and Florida State University provided $4 million for infrastructure and road work. The equity partners put up a total of about $1.5 million, said Bob Kellam, chair of the authority and house corporation president of Tau Kappa Epsilon. Kellam's fraternity will rent its buildings.

Each equity property is valued at about $3.5 million, according to Brian Lambert of Coastal Property Services. Coastal will collect rent and maintain all of the buildings and the grounds, he said.

Lambda Chi's buildings will be valued at about $3.4 million with an additional half a million dollars in furnishings and amenities, Mannheimer said. Currently, only a concrete slab and a gray-colored elevator shaft mark the location of Lambda Chi's new home.

Now, the Lambda Chi brothers on Park Avenue pay about $400 a month in rent at the 13,000-square-foot house.

Mannheimer noted that the new main house will be 38,000 square feet. The apartments will be a mixture of two-bedroom, four-bedroom and one-bedroom designs. The clubhouse will feature a pool table, dining area and apartments for 16 students on the second floor.

The average rental rate for an equity-house resident will be $400 per month. For a non-equity resident it will cost $480, said Lambert of Coastal Property.

Back at the Lambda Chi house, former president John Storey seemed wistful about the move. The brothers were preparing for a big beach party at the house next Friday. They'll move out of the house at the end of the month.

"We're going to miss the fact that we can treat it like a frat house, beat it up and it still looks the same," said Storey, 21. "But it's time to move on. Some of the best fraternities on campus are moving out there. And the ones that don't are going to wish they did."





Http://www.heritage-grove.com


As I stated on the TEKE Thread:

In seeing a lot of new changes of attitude by Schools, many majors, the tide seems to be turning a little more toward Greek Organizations.
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Last edited by Tom Earp; 06-07-2004 at 03:00 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2004, 04:57 PM
Ryan400z Ryan400z is offline
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Wow this is awesome, some of the best housing in the country. I know we had a great chapter here, I did not realize that it had 120-130 brothers, that is huge.

I am extremely envious of the housing at FSU, there alums and the Greek community there is on the ball. South Carolina built a greek village for Greeks a couple years ago and those houses are huge, Lambda Chi's house at USC will be ready by next fall. Auburn just added on to their house and I saw that house first hand, it looks great, it is beautiful inside and expansive, one of the best on campus.

Tennessee should be the next big southern school to expand but only a few fraternities have the money and greek life here has really been hurting recently, losing four chapters in the past 5 years. Our housing is inadequate compared to most colleges in the South, where houses are huge like LSU, Ole Miss, UGA, Auburn ext...We recently got the lottery in Tennessee and supposedly that is going to help build sorority townhouses and either add on to old houses or build new houses. Sig Ep is building what could be the biggest fraternity house in the country, well worth more than 4 million dollars, it helps that Jim Clayon, owner of Clayton homes is a Sig Ep alumni at UT.
We have been working on getting a new house and we now are just starting the long process of collecting money, hopefully in two years you will hear about the prodigious house at UT.

Overall, congratulations to Florida State on their new house, keep it clean and do not treat it like the old one. All of our chapters should aspire to get the best housing we can afford and keep up.

Last edited by Ryan400z; 06-07-2004 at 05:43 PM.
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  #3  
Old 07-02-2004, 06:57 PM
lxafsu lxafsu is offline
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Yeah the new house here at FSU is going to be amazing. Having over 60 brothers in one house together will be great. Also its all apartment style living so each brother will have his own room and bathroom, and share a kitchen and living room with one other brother. It really is going to be the best greek housing in America
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  #4  
Old 07-02-2004, 11:19 PM
lenoxxx lenoxxx is offline
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Apartment Style

Im not too sold on apartment style housing, we just left one of those after 5 years and I felt it was poor for the brotherhood and made a less than welcoming environment for the chapter as well as for alumni to come back to.

Ill take the new house at Shippensburg over most of the Greek housing I've seen over the years for the pure fact that it has a huge yard, privacy and no neighbors.

Lenox
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  #5  
Old 07-03-2004, 10:45 AM
lxafsu lxafsu is offline
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Lenoxxxx I dont think you understand the setup. It's not actually an apartment. We are building a huge house that will have about 60 brothers in it. Then we are building a huge chapter house right in front of the other building. The chapter house will have all the amenities of most other fraternity houses, large dining room, huge party rooms, living rooms, 2 plasma tvs, and a few rooms on the second floor for the officers. Its the best of both worlds, we have privacy and the ability to do homework in our rooms, but also have a huge chapter house just steps away its all being custom built for us with a fire pit, basketball court, and alot of other stuff added on.
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  #6  
Old 07-03-2004, 11:22 AM
boz130 boz130 is offline
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Here's a question on the new setup...did your alumni/chapter own the other building? There are a lot of campuses looking into the "Greek Village" concept, and the thing that kills the deal in the majority of cases is the fact that the alums own the building and won't have any say about things @ the new abode.

On top of that, if the chapter's forced to move into the "Village", then the alums are stuck w/a building that they have to find tenants for. It's one thing to be a landlord for your own brothers/sisters, but another to be just renting to anybody that's going to the university.

Granted, this setup has a lot of advantages: new building, C-L-E-A-N, in a place specifically made for GLO's, etc. On the other hand, I know some alums don't want to hand the reins of control over their chapter to the university.

I know of one instance where the university wants to have an "R.A."-style situation, where a school employee lives in the chapter house to keep an eye on things. The chances are this individual won't be a member of the GLO (they may not even be Greek). I suppose this isn't too different from the housemother concept, but it strikes me as a bit of "Big Brother is watching".

Thoughts, guys?

ZAX,
BF
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  #7  
Old 07-03-2004, 02:50 PM
lxafsu lxafsu is offline
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We are the equity holders of both the new chapter house and the main house
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  #8  
Old 07-03-2004, 03:52 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Question

What does equity holders mean?

At William-Jewell, in Liberty Mo. just outside of Kansas City, the school owns title to the land and the Fraternitys paid for the houses.

So, the school still controls the Fraternitys.

Is this the same case?

At UT Murfreesboro, the school built great grand houses but it seems that many of the Fraternitys that moved in are having a very hard time paying the fees to be there.

As you mentioned to lenoxxx, the best of both worlds.

As a member of my house corp. and instrumental in starting the new building commitee we have looked at many concepts. I also had the same concerne as Lenoxx had about the little apartment type set ups segregating Brothers from interacting.


Who is actually paying for the house?

Who controls the house?

While it sounds grand, what are the per bed costs?

Just some questions as Lenoxx and I have both been there.
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  #9  
Old 07-03-2004, 04:12 PM
lxafsu lxafsu is offline
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I am just a brother and not on the housing committee so I do not know all the specifics. I do know we had a large fundraising drive with our alums. We raised somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 million. My understanding is that we will have control over the house and the grounds, the entire development is privately owned but the University did give some of the land. The main drawbacks if you consider them drawbacks are: the parking for the entire development is considered FSU student parking so any student can park there not just the members of the 8 or so fraternities moving in. On the other hand there will be an average of like 1.5 spots in the development per person and it isnt in a spot that would be a high demand for student parking, unless ofcourse its gameday or something like that which makes the entire campus crazy. The other concern is that FSU police will patrol the area, while this may seem like they are interfering with us they will not be able to actually go inside the houses without proper procedure. It really is a fantastic plan but like always there are drawbacks. But it will be realtively cheap. Its about $385 per brother to live in the house. This is very cheap considering you get your own bedroom and bathroom and share a kitchen and living room with just one other brother.

I understand the concern of brother interaction, but I think the new setup will actually increase brother interaction. With over 60 brothers together in one house we will always have something to do and someone to hang out with. The chapter house will have a pool table, plasma televisions and tons of room for parties.

While the traditional setup of a fraternity house would probably be a slight bit more condusive to brother interaction, I can tell you the apartment style is a real bonus for general quality of life. We can have girlfriends or friends stay with us in comfort and not have to worry about the bathroom down the hall being clean for our girlfriends. I know atleast for myself I would never consider living in the old house but because we will be able to study and sleep when we want I am all for the new hosue. Im very excited about the project and I will ofcourse keep all of you up to date as we plan on moving in in late august.

The one drawback that I think every fraternity thinking of building something like our new house is chapter size. The house only works if you have a strong large chapter. Building a huge house would backfire on us if we were to go on probabtion and lose a large amount of our brothers. As of right now we are one of the strongest and largest chapters on campus, but in order to stay on the top we will really have to work hard as always.
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  #10  
Old 07-03-2004, 06:08 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Thumbs up

Do not get me wrong, I am not a total Nay Sayer as most on site are not either.

1.5 parking is the norm for parking as for Codes by the City.

Anyone can park there? That is not right, as it can take away from Brothers parsking there.

Maybe it could be so designated parking by permit only or signs placed, Private Parking for designated parkers to keep people from just pulling in and parking.

While you are not on The Commitee, All Brothers should be aware of waht is going on and the ramifications of this move.

Congratualations on the Amount of Money raised via the Alums to help finance this project!

Please keep use informed on the actions there!

Many have been there and done it and it isnt easy no matter what!
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Last edited by Tom Earp; 07-03-2004 at 06:13 PM.
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  #11  
Old 07-03-2004, 06:43 PM
lenoxxx lenoxxx is offline
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Hey I hope it does work out for you. Id have to actually see this place to make sense of it. I met an FSU brother in 2001 that showed me plans for a literal LCA complex of several buildings to get built sort of like you are describing so I think I sort of understand it.

Anyway, the parking thing sounds odd to me, but again I wish you all the best and I hope it works out for the Zeta Rho brothers at FSU. And congratulations for the sheer effort of fundraising and getting something large and presumably cool for your chapter. Put a picture of it up here so we can see it if you can!

zax

Lenox
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  #12  
Old 07-03-2004, 07:46 PM
lxafsu lxafsu is offline
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http://www.heritage-grove.com/

If you go to this website and click on the photo tour on the left, then click on the bottom left picture, you will see the overall site layout. The 8 numbered lots are the small non equity partners. The five large lots in the middle with no numbers are the equity lots. Im pretty sure ours is the farthest to the right of the large lots. As far as the parking you can see there are over 1,000 parking spots so the parking thing is not a problem.

The 3 pictures in the photo tour that show buildings have nothing to do with our house but the floorplan is an accurate picture. The front door opens into the rest of the house.

This may be hard to describe but if you look at the site layout I think you will understand my expanation of the set up.

If you start from the large parking lot and walk toward the lot you will walk up to the chapter house. Its a 2 story house with the bottom floor basically like any other fraternity house as I have described before. The upstairs will be officer rooms.

Walking out the back of the chapter house you will be in a courtyard. We will have a basketball court, hot tub, fire pit, and lots of area to socialize. Then comes the main house. It's a 3 story house that will hold about 50 brothers. All 3 floors are basically the same with one 4 bedroom 3 bath on each floor and the rest 2 bed 2 bath. Because the house is on a hill, the 3rd floor rooms have views of the entire FSU campus and views of the capitol. (I have a corner room on the 3rd floor facing the capitol and campus) The back of the lot opens to a large green space. All the residents will be able to use the green space for football and anything else they wish. Its a 37 acre development right in the middle of tallahassee. So its amazing that we have as much green space as we do. Looking at the picture you can also see the pool and clubhouse in the upper left area. On Ocala Rd there will be a bus stop for the FSU bus route and right across the street is a large shopping plaza including a Publix (supermarket).

Hope all this helps you picture it. If I can find a picture of our plans for the house Ill put them up.

Also the compound of buildings that you may have seen in 2001 was changed to just 2, a front chapter house and the back main house.

Last edited by lxafsu; 07-03-2004 at 07:48 PM.
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  #13  
Old 07-03-2004, 09:52 PM
lenoxxx lenoxxx is offline
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I looked at the website- this looks like a "JPI" or "College Park Communities" type apartment complex with a heavy Greek element to it. I cant say I'm surprised it didnt happen already. At PSU there are tons of similar sized apartment complexes with similar architecture.

However since there are plenty of "old school" Greek houses the fraternities never really have gone into that route.

Nonetheless, I hope it is very successful for the chapter, and please keep us posted.

Thanks

Lenox
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