Saudi Royal Family

[PhiPsiRuss]

On the surface, they are a great ally of America. You don't have to dig to deep to see that they are also one of the worst enemies.

They love to visit Western casinos, and enjoy all the luxuries that are offered from Western society. Then they turn around and financially support Wahabism, a 3 century old sect of Islam that is violently opposed to modernity.

The Saudi Arabian population despises them, and it should be no surprise that most of the 9-11 hijackers are from that nation.

More than any other nation, they bred the conditions that caused 9-11. After Afghanistan, they are the nation that should have been invaded. We can't invade them, because we do need the oil. We didn't need Iraqi oil, so we could begin to remake the region by placing a (classicly) liberal democracy next door.

The change is already begining. Many of the tiny monarchies on the Saudi Peninsula are introducing dramatic political reform.

Time will tell, but, in my opinion, the House of Saud will reform, or be overthrown. Afterall, there are many who believe that 9-11 wasn't reall directed against America, but against the Saudi Royal Family.

[Kevin]

I think if we are successful in Iraq, the house of Saud will soon outlive its usefulness. Iran will eventually turn into a more democratic society -- the clerics can't rule there for much longer. Iran is a much more modern society than you'd expect.

If the US wasn't dependent on their oil, they would probably be ruled by Saddam Hussein about right now.

[Rudey]

Let's look at the oil breakdown:

The US imports only 62% of its oil (12.2 MMBD in 2003).

2/5 of this 38% come from OPEC nations.

The top suppliers of oil (crude and refined products) to the United States during 2003 were Canada (2.1 MMBD), Saudi Arabia (1.8 MMBD), Mexico (1.6 MMBD), and Venezuela (1.4 MMBD). These numbers of course will change with the addition of Libya to oil exporters now.

Saudi Arabia contributes to 14.75% of our oil imports and barely above 9% of our oil consumption if my math is right.

Nobody would dare touch the Saudis right now before an election - but let's not make it out to be the US is only getting its oil from the Saudis. The only way to make heavy change in the region is to reduce our dependence on them - we need alternative sources of energy. Then let all the killers kill each other.

-Rudey

[PhiPsiRuss]

What would happen to oil prices if most Saudi oil was removed from the international market for several years, like in Iraq?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
What would happen to oil prices if most Saudi oil was removed from the international market for several years, like in Iraq?

People don't understand. Do you know what the Saudis did a few weeks ago at the peak of prices? They pumped more oil out. Did that change anything? Barely...almost nothing.

The prices right now are very high for oil because hedge funds, in particular, attacked and took net long positions. This was one of the many factors and it was a HUGE factor. The market will be bullish through at least the summer.

Here is another theory about oil that comes from public policy. You won't run out of it. It is so necessary that if it runs out in one place, they will double the efforts to find it in the next place.

-Rudey

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Rudey
People don't understand. Do you know what the Saudis did a few weeks ago at the peak of prices? They pumped more oil out. Did that change anything? Barely...almost nothing.

The prices right now are very high for oil because hedge funds, in particular, attacked and took net long positions. This was one of the many factors and it was a HUGE factor. The market will be bullish through at least the summer.

Here is another theory about oil that comes from public policy. You won't run out of it. It is so necessary that if it runs out in one place, they will double the efforts to find it in the next place.

-Rudey

Rudey, you should apply to Fox to replace Cavuto.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Rudey
The prices right now are very high for oil because hedge funds, in particular, attacked and took net long positions.

Are there any good articles that I can read on the role of hedge funds in current oil pricing?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
Are there any good articles that I can read on the role of hedge funds in current oil pricing?

I can't find anything on the internet. But I'm not saying that the funds are the only reason for the increase in prices. I'm saying they are a big reason...big difference. If tomorrow the cartel increased prices, lowered output, and sat happy then hedge funds then the cartel is the biggest reason. Historically, cartels have been the biggest reason but hey hedge funds have not been around forever nor have they taken oil positions since their creation.

-Rudey

[swissmiss04]

Interesting topic, Russ. Many people don't know anything about the history of Saudi Arabia or the house of Saud, nor are they truly aware of the political dynamics within the kingdom. There are literally thousands of princes and princesses within this family. When you consider that many of the men are polygamous and that women there are expected to have many children (and that's really about all they're allowed to do...that's a whole other can of worms), you can easily see how this family exploded as such. The younger generation is at odds with the older generation regarding their personal behavior, religious attitudes, political ideals, etc. There's definitely an outcry among Saudi intellectuals (many of whom have been forced into exile because they spoke their minds) to depose the royal family and institute somewhat of a democracy. The religious scholars that cry for the same thing get barely a nod from the powers that be. When the Saudis upped their oil production a few weeks ago to attempt to lower gas prices, people here viewed that as a nice gesture. The Saudis were laughing because they know quite well that it wouldn't impact prices at all but would be a Western PR heyday from them.
Wahabbism unfortunately is spreading beyond the borders of Arabia and is seeping as far as here. More and more American mosques are being funded and operated by people who ascribe to the Wahabbi perversion of Islam. Some religious scholar in Saudi Arabia recently issued a fatwa decreeing when it is "appropriate" to mutilate the body of an infidel. I find this absolutely disgusting and I hope that our government does what it can to sever friendly relationships with this out-of-control extremist kingdom.

[AnchorAlum]

Good stuff on the House of Saud and all correct. They get on planes periodically, and as soon as they leave Saudi airspace, the women put on makeup, break out the champagne, change into designer clothing, and light up the cigarettes. They stay in the finest Paris hotels and spend, spend, spend. Think about that the next time you are pumping $2.25 gas!

Rudey, isn't it also true that we are importing much more gas than in earlier years rather than crude oil, and the competition on the open market from the Chinese and Indians has driven up the price? Those two economies are exploding and the demand for autos and gasoline are skyrocketing.

We have not built a single new refinery in this country since 1976, and thus we are forced to import GAS rather than the crude oil - naturally the "finished product" will be more expensive.
Additionally, our existing refineries are compelled to produce about 15 different formulations of gasoline in order to comply with different state laws.

We certainly could alleviate some of this by building 4-5 more refineries. And we can find a way to do so within reasonable (there's the catch - agreeing on reasonable) parameters. I think it's important enought to try.

[Kevin]

Here's a throwaway statement for ya:

I don't think the government is REALLY interested in lowering gas prices. They seem very happy with oil companies making record profits. I don't know if oil companies really want to invest in new refineries considering that the US may transition largely to alternative sources of energy within the next 20-30 years.

[aurora_borealis]

Originally posted by AnchorAlum
We have not built a single new refinery in this country since 1976, and thus we are forced to import GAS rather than the crude oil - naturally the "finished product" will be more expensive.
Additionally, our existing refineries are compelled to produce about 15 different formulations of gasoline in order to comply with different state laws.

We certainly could alleviate some of this by building 4-5 more refineries. And we can find a way to do so within reasonable (there's the catch - agreeing on reasonable) parameters. I think it's important enought to try.

AnchorAlum, I know of at least two refineries in Alaska that have been built since 1976. One in North Pole and the Other in Valdez. Before the discovery of Prudhoe Bay crude, I believe the only refinery in Alaska was in Kenai. One in Valdez was built in 1993, and another in North Pole in 1985. Prudhoe Crude was discovered in 1968, but the pipeline wasn't completed until 1977, so many refiniers were built after that.

Yay for my History of Alaska Class!

[AlphaSigOU]

Seems to me that the Saudi royal family acts like a bunch of preacher's kids having the run of the house and the keys to the liquor cabinet when the parents are away. Must be that old-time Koran-thumping Wahhabism that smothers expression (or is it really outright hypocrisy?)

I got a nagging feeling in my gut that Saudi Arabia's days as a kingdom are numbered. Ain't gonna happen overnight but the House of Saud will implode from within, and Osama Yo'Mama and his henchmen are the catalyst.

[AnchorAlum]

Aurora, I'll keep looking for references to those Alaskan refineries, but even now, the API (American Petroleum Institute) web site article dated 6/3/04 says no new refineries in the US since '76.
Perhaps the Alaskan sites are categorized a different way.
Thanks for the info!

[aurora_borealis]

Originally posted by AnchorAlum
Aurora, I'll keep looking for references to those Alaskan refineries, but even now, the API (American Petroleum Institute) web site article dated 6/3/04 says no new refineries in the US since '76.
Perhaps the Alaskan sites are categorized a different way.
Thanks for the info!

AnchorAlum I think this is the article you are referencing? It is a .pdf file, so I am not sure if it will link correctly, but it is the same date you mentioned.

As far as the two refineries I mentioned, they are smaller, and produce things other than just gasoline. They are also owned by Petro Star Inc., which is part of the Arctic Slope Regional Corporation. It is actually a Native Corporation, that resulted from the Alaska Native Claims act of 1971 (this is why Alaska doesn't have a reservation system like in the Lower 48).

A lot of what is refined in Alaska, stays there for local usage. A lot of aviation fuel is kept for planes that stop for refueling in Anchorage and Fairbanks, and there are two Air Force bases that need jet fuel. On a whole the refineries are smaller than the CONUS ones.

As far as the Royal Saudi family is concerned, not a fan of the many levels of hypocrisy at all.