Standardized Testing, Merit Pay, but Most College Grads Still Lack Skills

[AKA2D '91]

Houston Teachers' Pay Now Tied to Scores By JUAN A. LOZANO, Associated Press Writer
Thu Jan 12, 8:43 PM ET



HOUSTON - Houston became the largest school district in the country on Thursday to adopt a merit pay plan for teachers that focuses on students' tests scores.



By a 9-0 vote, the Houston school board approved a plan that offers teachers as much as $3,000 in extra pay if their students improve on state and national tests. The program could be expanded to provide as much as $10,000 in merit pay for teachers.

The vote came after several teachers told the board at its monthly meeting they believed the plan was flawed and unfair because some teachers will be eligible for larger bonuses than others.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060113/...BhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

[RedefinedDiva]

It's a double-edged sword. The bonus will make some teachers work harder to prepare their students so that they will be eligible for the bonus, while some instructors will work hard and still get nothing, simply because the students may not suceed, regardless of what the teacher does. And what about teachers that are already in high achieving areas? They get the bonus automatically?

I think that Houston needs to rethink this merit pay jive....

[AKA2D '91]

Exactly.
Some students will not succeed like others will because of disabilities or they do not test well.

I do not think it's really fair, but I understand what the bottom line is.

High achieving areas: they probably receive the automatic pay. If so, you will probably have a high influx of teachers trying to get into that district.

I'm sure Soror Wonderful will be able to elaborate on this.

[Wonderful1908]

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
It's a double-edged sword. The bonus will make some teachers work harder to prepare their students so that they will be eligible for the bonus, while some instructors will work hard and still get nothing, simply because the students may not suceed, regardless of what the teacher does. And what about teachers that are already in high achieving areas? They get the bonus automatically?

I think that Houston needs to rethink this merit pay jive....

Thats how most teachers feel. I mean instead of measuring how well or how much students grow, they are going to take test scores and use as a means to pay teachers who supposedly work harder more money.

That sounds great but what about if I teach inner city kids who are all below the poverty line and haven't been given the proper foundation for education walk in my ninth grade class and I can produce growth from scoring in the 21st percentile to the 63 percentile? Thats 42 percent! That is huge growth, but you teach kids who have been wealthy their whole lives goes from scoring in the 83 percentile to the 87th percentile? Your kids grew 4 percent. Surely I am the better teacher, but because my kids did not score 70% you get a bonus! Thats crazy!! I don't work in Houstin Independent School District, I teach in a district in Houston, north of HISD. Teaching is so under appreciated, if people really knew the students we deal with today it would trip you out!

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by Wonderful1908
Teaching is so under appreciated, if people really knew the students we deal with today it would trip you out!

Believe me, I know. That's why I QUIT!!!

I give props to teachers. I know that there are some who don't do squat, but there are a lot who works their butts off everyday, only to get kicked in it every chance the students, parents, principal, school district, state, and nation gets the chance. Teachers are already working for peanuts and now they are going to add MORE pressure to a thankless job by basing whether a teacher gets a bonus on students' test performances? It's a shame....

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by Wonderful1908
Teaching is so under appreciated, if people really knew the students we deal with today it would trip you out!

Nooooooo. IF folks knew what TEACHERS had to go through everyday. Teachers cannot teach because they are too busy being the doctor, nurse, nurse's aid, counselor, police officer, pastor, friend, mother, father, sister, cousin, aunt, grandmother, guardian, referee, social worker, hair stylist, etc.

I'm not being funny. This is REAL!

ETA: Our problem: Elected Officials. They make these decisions without knowing what's REALLY going on. If you had elected officials on ALL levels to substitute in the classroom for ONE day, they.could.not! They probably could not make it 1/2 a day.

[Wonderful1908]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Nooooooo. IF folks knew what TEACHERS had to go through everyday. Teachers cannot teach because they are too busy being the doctor, nurse, nurse's aid, counselor, police officer, pastor, friend, mother, father, sister, cousin, aunt, grandmother, guardian, referee, social worker, hair stylist, etc.

I'm not being funny. This is REAL!

ETA: Our problem: Elected Officials. They make these decisions without knowing what's REALLY going on. If you had elected officials on ALL levels to substitute in the classroom for ONE day, they.could.not! They probably could not make it 1/2 a day.

For real! I mean I love the perks like long vacations, and being paid year round. More importantly I like the relationships I create with my students BUT man sometimes..... I wanna bust a cap in them kids behinds!

[06pilot]

I am ignorant to this subject. Tell me how does wher eyou come from equate to test scores.? You said kids from the inner city score less than wealthy kids. I know a few inner city kids (including myself) that do well on test and went to college and everything.

[Wonderful1908]

Originally posted by 06pilot
I am ignorant to this subject. Tell me how does wher eyou come from equate to test scores.? You said kids from the inner city score less than wealthy kids. I know a few inner city kids (including myself) that do well on test and went to college and everything.

You have got to be kidding right?

I am sorry for my sarcastic reaction?

I am not saying innercity kids can't and do score better, I am saying that paying teachers bonus pay based on test scores and not how much students grow is stupid. Since you are from the inner city and you had teachers, whose job do you think would be harder? That teacher teaching inner city kids trying to score a 70 on a state test or that teacher who teaches wealthy kids tying to get them to a 70 percent?

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by 06pilot
I am ignorant to this subject. Tell me how does wher eyou come from equate to test scores.? You said kids from the inner city score less than wealthy kids. I know a few inner city kids (including myself) that do well on test and went to college and everything.

You are the exception, not the rule.

Like my Soror stated, it is NOT that inner-city students CAN'T learn, score well, graduate, go on to college, etc. However, reality and statistics show that the test passage and graduations rates are far lower in the inner-city than in the suburbs and the dropout rate is higher. Thus, this makes the job of inner-city teachers much more difficult, as they are dealing with all of these working against them.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
It's a double-edged sword. The bonus will make some teachers work harder to prepare their students so that they will be eligible for the bonus, while some instructors will work hard and still get nothing, simply because the students may not suceed, regardless of what the teacher does. And what about teachers that are already in high achieving areas? They get the bonus automatically?

I think that Houston needs to rethink this merit pay jive....

When this first came out, a parent was on the news complaining that teachers will end up teaching the test, and not really teaching the subject.

The merit pay is not bad with all things being equal.......but we know that this is not always true.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by 06pilot
I am ignorant to this subject. Tell me how does wher eyou come from equate to test scores.? You said kids from the inner city score less than wealthy kids. I know a few inner city kids (including myself) that do well on test and went to college and everything.

Another reason for this is that many inner-city kids tend to have jobs after school to help support the family, so that really cuts into study time.

But, I do see what you are saying. I think that if a child comes from a home that vaules education, no matter the financial status of that home, then whether they are from the inner-city or not should not matter if the child wants to be successful in school.

[Amaretto Sour]

Aside from the fact that I don't see how this would affect art/PE/music teachers..

Originally posted by Wonderful1908
You have got to be kidding right?

I am sorry for my sarcastic reaction?

I wouldn't be. It's the truth, LOL.

It's fairly unrealistic to think that (a) all inner city students will fair as well as 06pilot. He (i'm assuming this is a "he") simply proves that there are exceptions to an acknowledgeable norm. I love to see kids like this, but it's damn near irrational to believe that it always happens this way. Don't be offended, it's just rational thinking.

Compare the test scores for your average inner-city area to those of your average suburban area . I'll tell you one thing. I went from one type to the other, and I'll put it like this: my suburban alma-mater had a 93% "success rate" (meaning out of the 848 i graduated with, 93% of my class went on to college). My inner city school district? A whopping ONE PERCENT. Now, why I think that is, is a whole other story. But that's still major.

[Amaretto Sour]

To me, it's all too reminiscent of someone's bright idea to pay the school systems in Indiana who were (coincidentally already full of money) succeeding in test scores lots of money, and take money away from schools that actually may need it.

I specified Indiana because while one high school used the extra new money to buy their choral department more satin for their performind gowns, there were schools in another area who didn't have air conditioning (for one reason or another) and couldn't afford fans or afford to have someone work on it.

Why is this mess okay? Do plans like this really work? Do they really motivate teachers to do more than they've always done? Are there republicans *cough* excuse me, people out there who think that in the inner city, all the teachers just sit on their tails and do nothing.. so the promise of more money is going to make them do some magic? Am I missing something here??

[soft&beautiful]

Originally posted by 06pilot
I am ignorant to this subject. Tell me how does wher eyou come from equate to test scores.? You said kids from the inner city score less than wealthy kids. I know a few inner city kids (including myself) that do well on test and went to college and everything.

I work as a math specialist in my school (inner city), I can tell you with great confidence why our students underachieve:it's because the bar is not raised to address the need. What I mean is, we have waaayyyy to many teachers who dummy down the education. Once a teacher (both black AND white) get it into their heads that these children aren't going to learn they quit trying. Why? Because they are undersupported. Damned if you do damned if you don't. Bottomline.

Parents don't attend PTSA meetings, for example, alot of times 'cause they can't because they are working late shifts or two sometimes three jobs to make ends meet. Then the flipside is lazy goodfornothin' parents who just get that check off their child....take that money and go get their hair, nails, and lashes done. ....

Then there are the I'm-in-my-suit-too busy trying to micro-manage-I'm going on lunch-too pretty-unconcerned--highly-paid to do nothing but watch t.v. in my office and play solitaire administration. Now I am fortunate that my principal is a grass-root person but not every school is like that....

Let's not forget Sheniqua and Deontay who have absolutely no home training and potty mouths and still in grade 8 don't know how to do fractions or basic mutiplication facts....

And the few innercity students that do well leave and go to charter or private schools (here) instead of parents demanding that the problem be fixed. Too many of the persons who sit on our school boards have a political agenda and dare not to come into any classroom except on special occasions.

It's truly sad.