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  #1  
Old 07-18-2003, 02:15 PM
enlightenment06 enlightenment06 is offline
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Blacks and Latinos

What are you views on Black and Latino relations? Now that Latinos are the majority minority and show no signs in stopping, there may be some changes around here.

To thicken the plot, whereas being "Black" as a race is a socially constructed idea, being "Latino" is not. Many Latinos are also "Black".

Depending on your geographic situation, relations may differ.

So, as Blacks and Latinos, where do we stand with each other? Do we have the same interests? Will we achieve them through a mutual effort or concentrating our own resources?
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2003, 02:28 PM
straightBOS straightBOS is offline
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I think it depends on geography and the historical relationship between the two groups in the area.

Growing up in Boston, I never really felt that Latinos were different from Blacks. I've dated several Latino males, but never considered that interracial dating. I spoke Spang-lish, and attended as many Dominican and Puerto Rican day parades as Carnival celebarations.

In VA, the Latino--namely Mexican population is exploding. But, I see a large disconnect from the Black community here. Most of them are new arrivals, do not speak English, and are taking over the lower paying jobs. So, there is some anomosity.

I think all people, who share the same social and economic ground share the same interests and goals. I do not believe we can achieve them through strife and a "battle" over resources. Especially since, as you mentioned, most Latinos can be so diverse racially, that competition against folks that look like you but are culturally dissimilar, can appear to outsiders to be infighting, and this helps no one.
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  #3  
Old 07-18-2003, 02:31 PM
Steeltrap Steeltrap is offline
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Good topic

I'm in Southern California. Blacks have been the minority here for years -- we're only 7% of the state's overall population, while Latinos are in the 20-30% range or so, I'm a little bit fuzzy on my math.

Most Latinos in California are Mexicans, products of mestizaje between Spanish people and Indians, unlike in the East with Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, etc.

In terms of Latino attitudes, I've found that second-generation or California-born Latinos tend to coexist more peacefully with AfAms. This extends to living in roughly the same neighborhoods, etc.
On the other hand, Latino immigrants sometimes come here with negative stereotypes of AfAms, mainly related to work.

And of course, many AfAms resent Latino immigrants because of the perception that they take ANY job out there and depress the wage market.

I do believe, however, that the groups need to find some commonalities, especially in Cali where we are a super-minority and have some of the same interests.
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  #4  
Old 07-18-2003, 03:13 PM
lovelyivy84 lovelyivy84 is offline
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NYC is a lot like Boston. The Latinos are basically black. There are much tight er communal bonds also because a lot of blacks and latinos up here DO share a culture- we have so many West Indians who might not speak spanish, but eat the same food and have the same cultural beliefs.

It's tight. It REALLY works for me.
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  #5  
Old 07-18-2003, 03:53 PM
Professor Professor is offline
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I hate to admit it but I grow more tired by the day with trying to accomodate a group of people that don't speak english and show very litte interest in learning. Sadly, latinos as a whole tear at the very strings of my civil rights advocacy. This is a bad spirit and I know its wrong but can't yet change my personal feelings.
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  #6  
Old 07-18-2003, 09:01 PM
AKA_Monet AKA_Monet is offline
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Unhappy

When I lived in Texas, I spoke more Spanish than I did when I lived in SoCal and I lived on a street named Camino De La Reina in SoCal...

How can we ask what relationship we have with any other group when we cannot decide what to call ourselves, we have no nation and we want to talk to a group a people that we call Latinoes who speak a predominantly Euro-centric language?

If anything our collective oppessions from a dominating mainstream culture will always connect us...

So, I kinda am unclear on your question...
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  #7  
Old 07-19-2003, 02:26 AM
CountryGurl CountryGurl is offline
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THE NATION

Report Shows How Racial Identities Affect Latinos
By Daniel Hernandez
Times Staff Writer

July 15 2003

An analysis of census data released today found that Latinos who defined themselves as "black Hispanics" report having lower incomes, less education and fewer opportunities when compared to those who define themselves as "white Hispanics."

The report, "How Race Counts for Hispanic Americans," was prepared by State University of New York at Albany sociologist John Logan using data from the 2000 Census. Logan said his analysis should better illuminate the similarities between blacks and Latinos and color differences within the groups, topics he said are often glossed over in the national discussion on race.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOR THE RECORD
Latinos — An article in Tuesday's Section A incorrectly stated that the 2000 census for the first time asked Latinos to classify themselves by race. Previous census reports have asked this question. The 2000 census for the first time allowed respondents to list multiple races of origin.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The 2000 Census for the first time asked Latinos to classify themselves as "white," "black" or "other."

To figure out socioeconomic differences among Latino groups, Logan studied respondents' own identifying terms. He said the study revealed stark differences between white and black Latinos.

Logan's analysis found that 17.6 million Latinos described themselves as white, and 939,000 described themselves as black. Logan created the term "Hispanic Hispanics" to categorize the remaining 16.7 million Latinos who described themselves as being either of another race or a combination of races.

The country's "black Hispanics" have a lower median income, higher unemployment rate and a higher poverty rate than the other two groups, the report found.

Black Latinos are more similar socioeconomically to African Americans than to white Latinos. Blacks and black Latinos have similar median income and poverty rates, the study noted.

Compared to other Latino groups, black Latinos are much less likely to be immigrants. They are much more likely to speak English in their homes, the study found.

While Dominican Americans and Puerto Rican Americans living on the East Coast make up the majority of black Latinos, the study found that nearly 250,000 Mexican Americans define themselves as black. Logan said many are of indigenous or Caribbean backgrounds.


__________________________________________________ __
After reading this article I feel as if AfAms and Blk Latinos share common interests and yes, we can achieve them through a mutual effort or concentrating our resources.
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Last edited by CountryGurl; 07-19-2003 at 02:31 AM.
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  #8  
Old 07-19-2003, 10:39 AM
Steeltrap Steeltrap is offline
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Thanks for sharing.

Interesting article. I had no idea that 250K Mexican Americans identified themselves as black. Yes, I've heard of "blaxicans," but I always thought they were biracials with one black and one Mexican parent. My nephew's cousin is blaxican.

Quote:
Originally posted by CountryGurl
THE NATION

Report Shows How Racial Identities Affect Latinos
By Daniel Hernandez
Times Staff Writer

July 15 2003

An analysis of census data released today found that Latinos who defined themselves as "black Hispanics" report having lower incomes, less education and fewer opportunities when compared to those who define themselves as "white Hispanics."

The report, "How Race Counts for Hispanic Americans," was prepared by State University of New York at Albany sociologist John Logan using data from the 2000 Census. Logan said his analysis should better illuminate the similarities between blacks and Latinos and color differences within the groups, topics he said are often glossed over in the national discussion on race.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOR THE RECORD
Latinos — An article in Tuesday's Section A incorrectly stated that the 2000 census for the first time asked Latinos to classify themselves by race. Previous census reports have asked this question. The 2000 census for the first time allowed respondents to list multiple races of origin.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The 2000 Census for the first time asked Latinos to classify themselves as "white," "black" or "other."

To figure out socioeconomic differences among Latino groups, Logan studied respondents' own identifying terms. He said the study revealed stark differences between white and black Latinos.

Logan's analysis found that 17.6 million Latinos described themselves as white, and 939,000 described themselves as black. Logan created the term "Hispanic Hispanics" to categorize the remaining 16.7 million Latinos who described themselves as being either of another race or a combination of races.

The country's "black Hispanics" have a lower median income, higher unemployment rate and a higher poverty rate than the other two groups, the report found.

Black Latinos are more similar socioeconomically to African Americans than to white Latinos. Blacks and black Latinos have similar median income and poverty rates, the study noted.

Compared to other Latino groups, black Latinos are much less likely to be immigrants. They are much more likely to speak English in their homes, the study found.

While Dominican Americans and Puerto Rican Americans living on the East Coast make up the majority of black Latinos, the study found that nearly 250,000 Mexican Americans define themselves as black. Logan said many are of indigenous or Caribbean backgrounds.


__________________________________________________ __
After reading this article I feel as if AfAms and Blk Latinos share common interests and yes, we can achieve them through a mutual effort or concentrating our resources.
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2003, 11:29 AM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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In Washington, DC, I believe that the local government has been performing necessary outreach to the Latino population.

When I was in high school, among the students there was little social integration. The black students were in the majority, and most of us largely ignored the small, but growing Latino population.

There were a few Latinos who integrated well with the overall population...keeping true to their roots but also having black friends. Many of the Latinos in my high school were first or second generation americans, so the ones who mastered the language were the ones who could reap the same benefits as the black students.

But as I went back to volunteer over the years, I noticed that there was resentment and outright racism toward the Latino students from the black teachers! The majority of the teachers at this particular school were just getting their start in education during the end of the civil rights movement -- right now they are in their late fifties, i would say. anyway, i would feel bad for the students because hell, if you can't feel equal in the classroom because the teacher is more racist than the student, what do you do?

luckily, there are support systems set up in washington for latino communities. i know that the williams administration has done a lot of outreach to all of washington's minority communities. there are also many non-profit agencies for Latino youth.

anyway, my point is that in a majority black city, we washingtonians should be mindful of not becoming the oppressor, for here latinos wield very little political power.
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  #10  
Old 07-19-2003, 05:12 PM
CountryGurl CountryGurl is offline
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Re: Thanks for sharing.

Quote:
Originally posted by Steeltrap
Interesting article. I had no idea that 250K Mexican Americans identified themselves as black. Yes, I've heard of "blaxicans," but I always thought they were biracials with one black and one Mexican parent. My nephew's cousin is blaxican.

I learned in high school (African American History class) how a lot of slaves (Southern) ran to Mexico instead of Canada due to the fact that it was closer.
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  #11  
Old 07-19-2003, 11:29 PM
LawyerGal2003 LawyerGal2003 is offline
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Seen it all....

>>>>To thicken the plot, whereas being "Black" as a race is a socially constructed idea, being "Latino" is not. Many Latinos are also "Black".
Depending on your geographic situation, relations may differ.
So, as Blacks and Latinos, where do we stand with each other? Do we have the same interests? Will we achieve them through a mutual effort or concentrating our own resources?



I was born and raised for the most part in the Bronx (New York) and as a teenager I dated guys who were mostly Caribbean and that included Dominicans and Puerto Ricans. In NY it was one in the same. I moved to the DC/MD area and its totally different. At my undergrad and in my law school all of the students I met of Latino decent gravitated towards whites and made no efforts in "minority" (groups like BLSA, etc.) activities, even the native New Yorkers, which was so odd to me and still is.

Just a different flavor down here is all I can say! I have a number of friends from Jr. high school who are Latino and dated like I did (cross culturally) in fact one of my best friends for over a decade is Puerto Rican, she's an AKA, and dated guys of all races and cultures (she recently married and he is also Puerto Rican.)
And we talk about this issue from time to time b/c as people of color we should pull together but at the same time the differences between us all be they important I feel they get in the way of the big picture we all need to see.

I think as the next generation coming along there will be the product of a lot of interracial marrying/dating/ procreating therefore the walls will be forced to come down...for better or worst....
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2003, 02:30 AM
Sugar_N_Spice Sugar_N_Spice is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Good topic

Quote:
Originally posted by Steeltrap
I'm in Southern California. Blacks have been the minority here for years -- we're only 7% of the state's overall population, while Latinos are in the 20-30% range or so, I'm a little bit fuzzy on my math.

Most Latinos in California are Mexicans, products of mestizaje between Spanish people and Indians, unlike in the East with Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, etc.

In terms of Latino attitudes, I've found that second-generation or California-born Latinos tend to coexist more peacefully with AfAms. This extends to living in roughly the same neighborhoods, etc.
On the other hand, Latino immigrants sometimes come here with negative stereotypes of AfAms, mainly related to work.

And of course, many AfAms resent Latino immigrants because of the perception that they take ANY job out there and depress the wage market.

I do believe, however, that the groups need to find some commonalities, especially in Cali where we are a super-minority and have some of the same interests.
You've basically summed it up for SoCal. Younger or Seond-generation Latinos get along far better w/ African Americans than first-generations do. I think that has to do more w/ growing up together and understanding each other's culture a little bit more. My high school consisted of roughly 48% Blacks and 48% Latinos. We all pretty much got along great--many of us haver known each other growing up, some early childhood. There is a huge amount of interracial dating in Cali--it's almost like the norm, although people do date interacially out here for various reasons (that's anpther thread though)...So, no one's really suprised to see an interracial couple walking down the street holding hands, etc. I have never dated anoyone that's Latino, but it's not b/c I'm against it...it just hasn't happened.

I feel like both groups do have very similar interests and commonalities and that it would benefit us to get over most of our roadblocks and unite.
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2003, 08:46 PM
Exquisite5 Exquisite5 is offline
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IMHO, it doesn't matter. We're all political minorities because NEITHER OF US VOTES!
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  #14  
Old 05-07-2004, 03:13 PM
Steeltrap Steeltrap is offline
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TTT/racial unemployment gaps

I found this interesting, particularly when it comes to the willingness of Latinos to take lower wage jobs.

HIGHER EDUCATION AND THE RACIAL UNEMPLOYMENT GAP

The U.S. Department of Labor reports that for the year 2003 the average unemployment rate for all workers was 5.7 percent. The black unemployment rate was 10.8 percent. For Hispanics, the overall unemployment rate was 7.7 percent.

Hispanics have a lower unemployment rate than blacks despite having lower educational credentials. Only 57 percent of all Hispanic adults have completed high school compared to about 80 percent of adult blacks and nearly 90 percent of adult whites. Approximately 11 percent of all adult Hispanics have a four-year college degree compared to 17 percent of blacks and 28 percent of whites.

Despite their lower level of education, Hispanics have escaped higher unemployment apparently because so many of them are willing to take positions as laborers and low-level service workers. Five percent of all Hispanic workers are employed as farm laborers. Many other Hispanics are employed as household workers, car washers, custodians, and retail service workers. There is high demand for these types of jobs. In contrast, high-paying factory work and low-level white collar jobs, where many black workers have been concentrated, are the positions that are being shipped overseas or being replaced by technology. Only 15 percent of Hispanics work in managerial or professional positions, compared to 23 percent of the African-American work force.
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2004, 06:26 PM
RBL RBL is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Professor
I hate to admit it but I grow more tired by the day with trying to accomodate a group of people that don't speak english and show very litte interest in learning. Sadly, latinos as a whole tear at the very strings of my civil rights advocacy. This is a bad spirit and I know its wrong but can't yet change my personal feelings.
Sadly, I agree with this, although I could be feeling very strongly about this (at this moment)because of an unfortunate and heated
incident that I was involved in at Chick Fil A. I had to have the assistant manager and the manager involved all because this young girl screwed up my order and tried to overcharge me. If she had spoken English we would not have had a problem. I do feel if you are going to come to this country to live you should learn our language...
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