Help!

[Concerned]

Okay. So I am a member of a music GLO (prefer not to say which one). One of the other music GLOs here is having quite a few problems right now. They have had about 7 out of 20 members go inactive over chapter operations and hazing.

I know that (I'm best friends with one of the girls and two of the guys who went inactive; it's a coed GLO) hazing goes on. My friends told me during pledging, they were blindfolded and led around campus late at night like that. Also, during one of their rituals they would have to go in blindfolded and they would bang a gong as loud as they could to scare the crap out of them before the ritual started. THey're also made to get signatures, biographies, etc. I know from being in my own GLO that all those things are hazing.

I actually contacted one of their folks at HQ to tell them my concerns, using a fake e-mail and a pseudonym and leaving out the name of the chapter. They wrote back and said, yes, it's hazing and they want to know the name of the chapter now.

I haven't replied back because I haven't decided if it's really the right thing to do or not, seeing as how I'm not IN that group. I also don't like to see people being hazed.

If anyone on here could give me some honest advice about the best thing to do, whether it's report the chapter's name or just mind my own business, I would really appreciate it. I want to do the right thing; I just can't decide what the right thing to do IS.

THank you!

[preciousjeni]

I really think it's a bad idea for you to go through with this. You mentioned that you know some people from the chapter in question. I would HIGHLY recommend encouraging one of them to come forward, even if they are inactive.

The biggest problem with your involvement is that you are going on hearsay. Have you actually witnessed these events? If not, stay out of it!!! It could be a huge hassle for you as an outsider.

Hope that helps!!!

preciousjeni

[WCUgirl]

Unless if you've actually experienced it or seen it with your own eyes, you shoud stay out of it. You don't know for a fact that any of this is going on, and even if you are best friends or related to the people in this group, you still can't be 100% sure unless you are there yourself.

I'm sure many of us here could tell you things we've heard about our own chapters from members outside the chapter that was news to us!

[33girl]

Unless you have SEEN IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES, it is hearsay. It is none of your business. Stay out of it, and ignore any further emails you get from the headquarters.

[Concerned]

I have seen some of it, actually. I have seen their members punishing them for forgetting to wear their pledge pins for one day. I have seen pledges not get initiated because they didn't get signatures, bios, and interviews from every single member. The other stuff, yes, is only based on what I've been told.

Thank you guys for the advice. I never told their nationals what chapter it was or where or anything. I just told them anonyously and asked them 1)is it hazing and 2)should I reveal the chapter.

Now that I think of it though, I think I will stay out of it. I just don't think it is my place to say anything, even if there IS hazing. I think I will just encourage my friends to come forward.

Thank you very much!

[Concerned]

Originally posted by 33girl
Unless you have SEEN IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES, it is hearsay. It is none of your business. Stay out of it, and ignore any further emails you get from the headquarters.

Okay so maybe it's NOT my business, and I decided not to tell on them. But it sucks that the chapter can go ahead and haze away!

[LouisaMay]

Originally posted by 33girl
Unless you have SEEN IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES, it is hearsay. It is none of your business. Stay out of it, and ignore any further emails you get from the headquarters.

Yes, but anything that hurts a friend IS your business. I agree with preciousjeni's advice that you should encourage your friends to step forward in the interest of positive change. As a non-member, keeping your distance is smart, but ignoring what you know would be irresponsible. I believe that you just want what is best for fellow Greeks and fellow human beings. However, getting involved with their nationals may be crossing the line.

LM

[Rio_Kohitsuji]

Okay..the non-grumpy post now..

Okay..now my main question is if you have seen these pledges being "hazed" did they even look a bit unhappy? Did the org's NM retention rate drop any since these "activities" have been going on? If their rate has been going down or the pledges have been looking unhappy then go to the actives and tell them, sometimes pledges will put on a false face for the actives and the actives will have no idea that they are being too rough on them. But then again, I am afraid if these girls are truely being hazed that once you tell the actives about their behavior and the pledges haven't been looking "happy" it's going to hurt the pledges in the end and the may get "it" more. It all depends on the makeup of the sorority. I wouldn't personally involve the Natl's yet just hang out a bit more and try to speak w/the pledges.

[AGDee]

If the national organization defines those things as hazing, then it is hazing, "on paper" or not in your eyes.

Dee

Originally posted by TKE209Sweethrt
Umm..where is the hazing there? On paper it may be "hazing" but boy, get real. Oh, and not getting initiated for not getting signatures or the interviews? Good! The main point for those activities for pledges to do is to get to know the actives and the organization as a whole better. If a pledge isn't even putting forth effort to do the little things like that, well hell, who needs them? If they aren't even around during their dag on pledge period, then what says they'll be around once they get in?
Sorry for the rant, but I'm thinking you really don't know the inside reasons and you're putting your nose where it doesn't belong. Now if you say an active physically hurt a pledge..is when it'll be important.

I've never been one to criticize or question another GLO's pledge/NM program, but just because it's okay to get signatures, do interviews, put in extra effort for YOUR sorority doesn't mean that it's okay for other sororities.

The above things that were listed would be construed as hazing in my sorority and many others, and chapters who haze their NMs could get their charter pulled in a heartbeat.

One doesn't have to be physically beaten to be hazed. There are 2342987348754 different types of hazing these days, everyone still has a difference of opinion.

That's why we call it the NEW MEMBER EDUCATION PERIOD, not the "BE MY LITTLE PEON BITCH PERIOD".

[AchtungBaby80]

Yes, let those who were directly involved report to HQ...they were there, so they know exactly what happened and what didn't. The stuff you mentioned wouldn't fly with my sorority, no way, no how, and I doubt it would with another national organization, either, although I'm not sure what the standards are for individual groups.

[PsychTau]

Originally posted by TKE209Sweethrt
Umm..where is the hazing there? On paper it may be "hazing" but boy, get real. Oh, and not getting initiated for not getting signatures or the interviews? Good! The main point for those activities for pledges to do is to get to know the actives and the organization as a whole better. If a pledge isn't even putting forth effort to do the little things like that, well hell, who needs them? If they aren't even around during their dag on pledge period, then what says they'll be around once they get in?
Sorry for the rant, but I'm thinking you really don't know the inside reasons and you're putting your nose where it doesn't belong. Now if you say an active physically hurt a pledge..is when it'll be important.

TKE209Sweethrt....
Denying initiation because a new member did not get enough signatures or interviews has been labeled as hazing by many (if not all) national organizations. If that activity is specifically against the GLOs anti-hazing policy, then it is not allowable by that organization.

Hypothetical situation....
Let's say I'm driving through my college town late at night and I drive by a carwash. I see some girls that I KNOW are members of XYZ spraying water on other girls that I KNOW are pledges (back in my day) of XYZ. Apparently the girls being sprayed have lots of other stuff on them cause they look dirty. The girls being sprayed have blindfolds on.

Being a member of NPC, in order to uphold my own GLO values as well as NPC values, am I obligated to report what I saw? Who would I report that to?

Discuss......

PsychTau

[sairose]

Originally posted by TKE209Sweethrt
Umm..where is the hazing there? On paper it may be "hazing" but boy, get real. Oh, and not getting initiated for not getting signatures or the interviews? Good! The main point for those activities for pledges to do is to get to know the actives and the organization as a whole better. If a pledge isn't even putting forth effort to do the little things like that, well hell, who needs them? If they aren't even around during their dag on pledge period, then what says they'll be around once they get in?
Sorry for the rant, but I'm thinking you really don't know the inside reasons and you're putting your nose where it doesn't belong. Now if you say an active physically hurt a pledge..is when it'll be important.

I disagree 100%.

You are from a local, and I know that locals don't have nationals watching over them. While it shouldn't make a difference and locals shouldn't haze, it does tend to happen more. However, those things WOULD NOT fly in SAI. EVER. They ARE hazing, and hazing DOES NOT have to be physical. We, as a national organization, agree to abide by the rules. And we take it very seriously.

I know that bios and stuff are to get to know the members. But did you ever think that getting to know the members happens more naturally when you all just spend sisterly time together? FORCING new members to do extra work is just stupid.

I don't know all of COncerned's situation, but
1) banging a gong to scare the sh** out of blindfolded pledges,
2) punishing them for not wearing their pledge pins,
3) forcing them to do time consuming things like interviews when they should just be getting to know the members on their own,

doesn't sound like things done out of love. We treat our new girls with more respect than that. And Kayla, those things ARE HAZING AND ARE ILLEGAL. Hazing is never okay.

And just because your sorority thinks those things are okay doesn't give you the right to critisize national GLOs' policies.

[/end rant]

[Concerned]

Originally posted by TKE209Sweethrt
Umm..where is the hazing there? On paper it may be "hazing" but boy, get real. Oh, and not getting initiated for not getting signatures or the interviews? Good! The main point for those activities for pledges to do is to get to know the actives and the organization as a whole better. If a pledge isn't even putting forth effort to do the little things like that, well hell, who needs them? If they aren't even around during their dag on pledge period, then what says they'll be around once they get in?
Sorry for the rant, but I'm thinking you really don't know the inside reasons and you're putting your nose where it doesn't belong. Now if you say an active physically hurt a pledge..is when it'll be important.

Do some research. No one ever said you have to be beat up to be hazed. There's other types.

And I wasn't trying to put my nose where it doesn't belong. I was showing concern for the org because they haze, and was trying to get advice about the best way to handle the matter, and if you had actually read my posts you'd see I said I took everyone's advice and decided to ask my friends to come forward and I would stay out of it.

And don't come on here bashing me for trying to get advice when no one has ever even heard of your little sorority. At least people are familiar with my letters.

[DolphinChicaDDD]

Fav GC quote of the week:

Originally posted by OohTeenyWahine
That's why we call it the NEW MEMBER EDUCATION PERIOD, not the "BE MY LITTLE PEON BITCH PERIOD".

ok, but seriously, I basically was a pledge/new member twice. Once as a pledge for my local, Alpha Theta Phi, and during the transition to Tri Delta we went through Tri Delta's New Member Education. I've been on both sides of the 'so called hazing' debate.
When I pledged my local, it was time consuming. I barely had time for everything...and signatures and interviews were the hardest things to accomplish. Trying to track down 40 women is hell. We loved the interviews, and I valued the time I did get to spend with my sisters greatly, but now we know for the classes comming in that we set up times during their New Member meetings for interviews.
When my roommate pledged Tri Delta, she still had meetings and activities and pledge stuff to do, but it was so much more relaxed. And when I look at her NME vs my pledging, yeah, I can see how I was "hazed".
Don't get me wrong, I loved my pledge period, and I love my local history, and I love my sisters...but I would never ever ever subject any other pledge class to the task of tracking me down.