Chirac Seeks Law Banning Muslim Headscarf in School

Intense1920 · #1 12-17-2003, 04:33 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ance_chirac_dc
Chirac Seeks Law Banning Muslim Headscarf in School

38 minutes ago

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By Helene Fontanaud

PARIS (Reuters) - French President Jacques Chirac called on Wednesday for a law banning Islamic headscarves and other religious symbols in state schools, despite protests from Muslims in France and across the world.

Reuters Photo

In a televised speech after months of debate on the role of religion in French society which highlighted the difficulties of Muslim integration, Chirac urged parliament to pass the law before the next school year starts in September.

The ban will extend to other religious symbols including Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses, but France's top Muslim representative said it mainly targeted Islam and would further alienate the country's five million Muslims.

"In all conscience, I consider that the wearing of dress or symbols which conspicuously show religious affiliation should be banned in schools," Chirac, standing in front of a French flag, said in a speech to 400 invited guests at his Elysee Palace.

"For that, a law is necessary. I want it to be adopted by parliament and in force before the return to school next year."

Chirac rejected a government commission's proposal to mark the holy days of minority faiths with new school holidays, saying French pupils already had many official days off.

He said pupils could wear discreet symbols of faith such as small Islamic pendants, Christian crosses or the star of David.

The controversy over Muslim headscarves is a major issue following several cases of schoolgirls defying schools which have tried to stop them covering their heads in class.

Chirac said such defiance breached the landmark separation of church and state in 1905 and would heighten tensions in France's multicultural society, whose Muslim and Jewish populations are both the biggest of their kind in west Europe.

"Secularity is one of the republic's great achievements. It plays a crucial role in social harmony and national cohesion. We must not allow it to be weakened," Chirac said.

POLLS SHOW STRONG SUPPORT FOR BAN

Opinion polls show the ban in schools is backed by a large majority of French citizens although Muslim, Jewish and Christian leaders have opposed it.

Muslims make up about eight percent of France's population. Dalil Boubakeur, the president of the French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM), voiced concern before the speech but urged young Muslims to be calm after he heard Chirac speak.

"We call...for thoughtfulness, calm and serenity," he said.

Grand Rabbi Joseph Sitruk said he was satisfied overall with Chirac's speech, adding: "I had been worried about a law (specifying) the size of a kippa or of a cross."

In the former French colony of Algeria, co-president of the international federation of victims of terrorism, Saida Benhabyles, said people who live in France must respect the principle of secularism, at least in schools.

"I am a Muslim woman and I don't wear a head scarf and I don't condemn those that wear it but those that force women to wear them," said Benhabyles. "I only hope the law will not be used for political ends by extremist groups."

Chirac hopes his tough stand to maintain the official division between the church and state will help boost his sliding popularity and prevent the far-right National Front from cashing in on racial strife in regional elections in March.

At present, schools must decide how to deal with pupils whose headscarves, skullcaps or crosses contravene secular principles. Decisions to suspend or expel pupils for wearing the Muslim headscarf have sparked angry debates for some time.

Race relations are in the spotlight with young Muslims of North African origin blamed for a perceived rise of anti-Semitic violence in poor suburbs.

"I think this has nothing to do with being secular. This is probably because of the fear that Islam sometimes is linked to terrorism," said Syafii Maarif, chief of the 30-million-strong Muhammadiyah, Indonesia's second-largest Muslim organization.

(Additional reporting by Emmanuel Jarry, Kerstin Gehmlich in Paris, Fahd al-Frayyan in Riyadh, Edmund Blair in Cairo and Parinoosh Arami in Tehran)
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I totally diagree with this movement. What does the seperation of church and state have to do with a person's individual right to wear something representing their religion?

PhiPsiRuss · #2 12-17-2003, 04:36 PM

Well, Chirac is not a liberal, in the classical definition of the word. He is socialist, and believes that government knows what's best for its people. Welcome to Orwellian France.

Rudey · #3 12-17-2003, 04:49 PM

The law is very well supported among feminists including an influential Muslim one.

Supporters also are trying to give children more of a freedom to choose whether they want to have these more stricter forms of religion - in this case it's young girls. In the case of Jews and Christians being banned from wearing skull caps and large crosses, it's applicable to both sexes.

-Rudey

TheEpitome1920 · #4 12-17-2003, 05:04 PM

I think this is a joke. And I don't see the comparison between wearing a Cross or Star of David to a Scarf. I think its a blantant disregard to people's beliefs and their obligations to their God. Not to mention the fact that France is always trying to restrict the freedoms of their Muslim population.

moe.ron · #5 12-17-2003, 05:07 PM

The cynic in me sees this as a political move by Chirac to get votes from the National Front. But it's their country, and they can do anything they want.

Rudey · #6 12-17-2003, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
I think this is a joke. And I don't see the comparison between wearing a Cross or Star of David to a Scarf. I think its a blantant disregard to people's beliefs and their obligations to their God. Not to mention the fact that France is always trying to restrict the freedoms of their Muslim population.

Actually it's a yarmulka if you really want to create comparisons so try to understand that before you make those statements.

There is definitely a right to religion but your host country does not have to accept bits of culture that it considers wrong. There was a recent article (search GC if you want) talking about rapes in French immigrant culture and how they're hidden and the girls are blamed.

People can't just say culture or religion demand things anymore in Western society. They can in their original countries but only because the world is apathetic to that region and because they have power there.

-Rudey

TheEpitome1920 · #7 12-17-2003, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Actually it's a yarmulka if you really want to create comparisons so try to understand that before you make those statements.

There is definitely a right to religion but your host country does not have to accept bits of culture that it considers wrong. There was a recent article (search GC if you want) talking about rapes in French immigrant culture and how they're hidden and the girls are blamed.

People can't just say culture or religion demand things anymore in Western society. They can in their original countries but only because the world is apathetic to that region and because they have power there.

-Rudey

I'm actually referring to the years of France trying to ban Muslim students from wearing scarves in school. This is nothing new. Muslim have been expelled from school for wearing hijab. For some reason people tend to associate scarves in Islam with repression for Muslim women...

Rudey · #8 12-17-2003, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
For some reason people tend to associate scarves in Islam with repression for Muslim women...

Including many Muslims.

-Rudey

TheEpitome1920 · #9 12-17-2003, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Including many Muslims.

-Rudey

I would say that they are not clear in their understanding of the faith...

enlightenment06 · #10 12-17-2003, 05:38 PM

Epitome, don't worry about Rudey. He just seems to think the West is Best and that's all she wrote

Rudey · #11 12-17-2003, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by enlightenment06
Epitome, don't worry about Rudey. He just seems to think the West is Best and that's all she wrote

America is the best right now. Don't dig it? Start a new thread and talk about it. I don't know why you threw that in there.

A) If certain Arab countries can force women to wear certain things, then France surely has a right to create it's own rules. If this is an issue of a culture being forced on someone, why don't you complain about that?

B) If women choose to wear certain things and you choose to say they are uncertain of their faith, fine. You'd alienate a whole lot of Muslims if you did, but that is not my decision to make. But if a girl is forced to wear something by her family from day 1 that has a lot of implications. The cultures crash as Huntington would say.

-Rudey
--Don't worry about enlightenment06, when people say anything to him, he can never respond with facts...sometimes he even says things that have nothing to do with the thread as he did just now.

TheEpitome1920 · #12 12-17-2003, 06:08 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rudey

B) If women choose to wear certain things and you choose to say they are uncertain of their faith, fine. You'd alienate a whole lot of Muslims if you did, but that is not my decision to make. But if a girl is forced to wear something by her family from day 1 that has a lot of implications. The cultures crash as Huntington would say.

Obviously you need to go back and read what I said. Muslims who state that wearing hijab is oppressive, in my opinion, are unclear about their faith. Wearing it is not intended to restrict women in any form. Now I agree that a person shouldn't be FORCED to do anything. You should behave according to what you feel is right in that case. However, you can't take parts of a faith and not all and call yourself a true believer, in my opinion. Either you are or you aren't...

Rudey · #13 12-17-2003, 06:23 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TheEpitome1920

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey

B) If women choose to wear certain things and you choose to say they are uncertain of their faith, fine. You'd alienate a whole lot of Muslims if you did, but that is not my decision to make. But if a girl is forced to wear something by her family from day 1 that has a lot of implications. The cultures crash as Huntington would say.

Obviously you need to go back and read what I said. Muslims who state that wearing hijab is oppressive, in my opinion, are unclear about their faith. Wearing it is not intended to restrict women in any form. Now I agree that a person shouldn't be FORCED to do anything. You should behave according to what you feel is right in that case. However, you can't take parts of a faith and not all and call yourself a true believer, in my opinion. Either you are or you aren't...

What do I have to reread? Perhaps they don't agree with you? By me saying that, am I wrong? Do they have any less of a voice because "they are unclear about their faith"?

Listen I agree with you on that even though I know it clearly places me in the minority. I'm trying to avoid that conversation because I don't know enough about Islam to say hey this is a cultural thing or a religious one. I don't know what was written and who interpreted it and what power they had. Certain regions and sects argue that the others are "unclear about their faith". Hey some wear full veils with holes for their eyes in this country, in this other country they wear veils on their heads but aren't allowed to wear colors or designs, and oh hey this group wears veils on their head that are colorful and have designs on them. Some countries have Muslim women who don't wear any veils. Who is unclear?

-Rudey

moe.ron · #14 12-17-2003, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
What do I have to reread? Perhaps they don't agree with you? By me saying that, am I wrong? Do they have any less of a voice because "they are unclear about their faith"?

Listen I agree with you on that even though I know it clearly places me in the minority. I'm trying to avoid that conversation because I don't know enough about Islam to say hey this is a cultural thing or a religious one. I don't know what was written and who interpreted it and what power they had. Certain regions and sects argue that the others are "unclear about their faith". Hey some wear full veils with holes for their eyes in this country, in this other country they wear veils on their heads but aren't allowed to wear colors or designs, and oh hey this group wears veils on their head that are colorful and have designs on them. Some countries have Muslim women who don't wear any veils. Who is unclear?

-Rudey

The problem with the media is that they do not potray Islam and Muslims as pluralistic. In fact, that is the very case. There are many sects within Islam and different interpretations of the Koran. What one can be seen as sinful in one interpretation, another can say something else. It is the same as Christianity with her different sect. Like I've said previously, there is an interesting debate in Indonesia about abortion. I've also read an article which a transexual was welcomed to the community by the local mullah in Indonesia. What was the Mullah's reasoning for that welcoming, he said "It's not up to me to judge's one's soul." Then you have the Taliban. An oppresive movement.

Rudey · #15 12-17-2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moe.ron
The problem with the media is that they do not potray Islam and Muslims as pluralistic. In fact, that is the very case. There are many sects within Islam and different interpretations of the Koran. What one can be seen as sinful in one interpretation, another can say something else. It is the same as Christianity with her different sect. Like I've said previously, there is an interesting debate in Indonesia about abortion. I've also read an article which a transexual was welcomed to the community by the local mullah in Indonesia. What was the Mullah's reasoning for that welcoming, he said "It's not up to me to judge's one's soul." Then you have the Taliban. An oppresive movement.

Yes and I also know that there is a movement to not really force youth to follow the religion until they choose to do it of their own accord because only then will it be something they appreciate, want, and understand.

-Rudey