Religion question...

[aephi alum]

There's an interesting thread in the AKA forum about conversion... a few people (myself included) have said that they went through with confirmation into their childhood faith mainly because they were expected to by their families and communities.

So I'm wondering what you think about confirmation ages...

What does your faith do (if applicable) as far as confirmation/coming of age? What does being confirmed mean in terms of rights and responsibilities? At what age are you confirmed? And do you think that age is too young, too old, or just right?

If you're agnostic, atheist, or your faith doesn't have a confirmation - what do you think of confirmation ages in general?

I know this has the potential to get controversial... let's keep it civil

[sigmagrrl]

I got confirmed in Catholicism because I was expected to in seventh grade. In seventh grade, I was 11! So, I really had no say, but I can say now that I'm "borderline" Catholic. I don't agree with a lot of its teachings....I can't say I believe 100% in God; I don't know what I believe....

[valkyrie]

What an interesting thread!

I was raised Presbyterian, but my family wasn't all hard core about it. In fact, my father hasn't been to church since he was a kid (he was raised Catholic) and he doesn't believe in God. My mother was the one who took me, and I went to confirmation classes and was confirmed when I was in 8th grade. At the time, I wasn't really into religion, but I figured I probably believed in it as much as I could at that young age.

Since I was about 18, I have been curious about other religions because I just don't believe in the teachings of Christianity and I don't believe in God. If I'm anything, I'm a non-practicing Buddhist. I say that because I believe in the teachings and principles of Buddhism and I try to live my life according to my understanding of them, but I don't "sit" or go to a temple.

I don't really think it was a bad thing that I was confirmed, but I don't think that 8th grade is old enough to be making any declarations about religion because you're too young to really, truly understand it. I don't have a problem with parents teaching their children about religion and exposing them to it, but I also don't think that (at least for me) it is appropriate to practice or believe in a religion just because it's what my parents taught me. Honestly, I have *tried* to believe in God and I think that I would find it very comforting to do so, but when it comes down to it, I just don't.

If I ever have a kid (and that's not really my plan at this time) I think that I would probably try to educate him or her about different religions so that he/she could make an educated decision about religion when/if desired.

To me at least, religion or being spiritual is a very personal issue and decision. I don't care for confirmation at all, because I don't see the point of it. I guess I don't care much for organized religion at all. I don't think that whether you're confirmed or a memeber of a church or a temple or whatever is important. I think that what's inside you and what you believe is.

[justamom]

Catholics around here get confirmed their Junior year in HS.
They are still under the pressure of their parents and peers.
It's a very serious statement you make in regards to your beliefs and promises.

I think it would be far better, honest and more meaningful if the time was an individual choice. However, too many would most likely put it off and forget about it. It IS viewed as a grace which is a gift and empowers us against evil. Tough call.

[KappaKittyCat]

I was confirmed into the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod in 8th grade, when I was thirteen. I had no say in the matter.

If given the choice-- and by "choice" I mean "a decision made free from emotional blackmail"-- when I was thirteen I probably would have gotten confirmed anyway. If confirmation in the LCMS were later, say junior or senior year in high school, then I probably would not have.

I've since fallen away from the Church. I don't like its philosophy of guilt, its presumptively judgemental nature, or its misogynist and patronizing attitudes towards women. I agree with Valkyrie that religion or being spiritual is a very personal issue. I consider myself a very spiritual person and I still go to church on occasion, but most of the time I'm not religious.

It's all the same thing to me, anyway.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by aephi alum
There's an interesting thread in the AKA forum about conversion... a few people (myself included) have said that they went through with confirmation into their childhood faith mainly because they were expected to by their families and communities.

So I'm wondering what you think about confirmation ages...

What does your faith do (if applicable) as far as confirmation/coming of age? What does being confirmed mean in terms of rights and responsibilities? At what age are you confirmed? And do you think that age is too young, too old, or just right?

If you're agnostic, atheist, or your faith doesn't have a confirmation - what do you think of confirmation ages in general?

I know this has the potential to get controversial... let's keep it civil

I am one of those people who talked about being confirmed because of expectations, not because of any internal change. As a Christian I think it is important for parents to realize that they cannot "make" their children be Christians. Christianity is about an inward change, not an outward declaration. You can make all of the outward declarations in the world, but if there had not been a true, inward change, then it really means nothing in the eyes of God.

I think parents should explain what giving your life to Christ means (if they are Christians) and let the child know it is their decision and what the consequences are. I'm not sure where this is, but I think the Bible says something about children being covered by their parents until they are at the "age of cencent." and at that point they are kinda on their own with salvation.

To answer your question, I attend a Baptist church and my pastor makes certain when a little kid comes down to "give his/her life to Christ" that they are doing it because they want to, not because their parents told them too. IF the kids says I came down because mama told me too he has a little talk with the parent saying I know you want your child to be saved, but this is not the way, etc. It's very loving and gentle. He then tells the child when THEY are ready to come back and if they have any questions about God, etc. to ask. I think that is the best way.

Bottom line, I think children should be taught about God/Jesus/Holy Spirit from the moment they come out of the womb, but they ultimately need to make the decision.

[Cluey]

Originally posted by Eclipse
I think parents should explain what giving your life to Christ means (if they are Christians) and let the child know it is their decision and what the consequences are. I'm not sure where this is, but I think the Bible says something about children being covered by their parents until they are at the "age of cencent." and at that point they are kinda on their own with salvation.

Bottom line, I think children should be taught about God/Jesus/Holy Spirit from the moment they come out of the womb, but they ultimately need to make the decision.

That is what I was going to say, only more eloquent.

As a baby, I was dedicated in the Southern Baptist church. My whole family went to that church and it was all I ever knew. Then, when I was about 8, my aunt and uncle converted to the Lutheran Church. I would go to church with them from time to time and it really helped broaden my knowledge of religion.

My sunday school group hardly ever changed, so we all knew everybody else. At about age 11, there were only about 4 of us that had not "taken the plunge" (Southern Baptists use immersion for baptism).

I finally decided to be baptized when I was 14. At my church, baptism was always referred to as the outward action of the inner change. I really didn't think I could make that kind of decision until I was older. The other kids who were baptized at the same service were 4, 5, and 8. At those ages, I couldn't have known enough to make an informed decision, but everyone is different.

I never felt pressure from my family, honestly. My parents knew that everything would work out in God's own time. It was a bizzare coincidence, though, that I was baptized on Mother's Day. My mom cried and said that she couldn't have asked for a better present...

[Kevin]

There was never much pressure to go through with any particular religion in my family. Yet, I was raised a Catholic.

I was confirmed either my Sophomore or Junior year. We were required to attend a class for a year and at the end there was a ceremony. The archbishop presides over the ceremony. You sign your name in a book (symbollic of the acts of the early Christians) -- then he lays hands on your head, also symbollic of the acts of early Christians.

[aephi alum]

Answering my own question

I went through Confirmation as a Catholic at the end of 8th grade. I was one of the youngest in my class, so I was still 12. At the time, I was starting to doubt whether I really wanted to be Catholic. If it had been up to me, I would have asked to put it off for a year or two until I'd sorted some things through, and most likely never would have done it. But it was quite clear to me that if I wanted a roof over my head, I was getting confirmed on schedule.

Judaism is a little different. You become bar or bat mitzvah at age 13 (12 for Orthodox girls). You are then considered an adult - whether or not you participate in a bat/bat mitzvah ceremony, chant from the Torah, and have a big expensive party afterwards. (In fact, the idea of a bat mitzvah ceremony for a girl is fairly new.)

There is also a confirmation, which in my congregation happens in 10th grade. To be confirmed, you have to continue studying over and above the requirements for a bar/bat mitzvah ceremony. But being confirmed is the exception rather than the rule.

The problem is that the age of adulthood in many faiths was set back when 12 and 13 year olds could and did go off and get married and set up their own households. Nowadays, our culture and laws consider you a child until you're 18. I think you have to make a decision like confirmation of your own free will, and if you're going to be stuck as a child in your parents' house for the next five years, you don't really have that freedom.

My hypothetical future children will be going to Sunday school and Hebrew school, but if they then decide they don't want a bar/bat mitzvah ceremony or to continue studying and be confirmed, that's their decision and I'll respect it (although I will be disappointed).

[KappaKittyCat]

Originally posted by Eclipse
I attend a Baptist church and my pastor makes certain when a little kid comes down to "give his/her life to Christ" that they are doing it because they want to, not because their parents told them too. IF the kids says I came down because mama told me too he has a little talk with the parent saying I know you want your child to be saved, but this is not the way, etc. It's very loving and gentle. He then tells the child when THEY are ready to come back and if they have any questions about God, etc. to ask. I think that is the best way.

If I had told my pastor that I had reservations but was going through with confirmation because my parents wanted me to, my momma would have tanned my hide the minute we got home from church.

ETA: I guess, upon reflection, my biggest problem with most types of Christianity is that they use fear to manipulate children. Not cool.

[33girl]

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat
I was confirmed into the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod in 8th grade, when I was thirteen. I had no say in the matter.

If given the choice-- and by "choice" I mean "a decision made free from emotional blackmail"-- when I was thirteen I probably would have gotten confirmed anyway. If confirmation in the LCMS were later, say junior or senior year in high school, then I probably would not have.

I've since fallen away from the Church. I don't like its philosophy of guilt, its presumptively judgemental nature, or its misogynist and patronizing attitudes towards women. I agree with Valkyrie that religion or being spiritual is a very personal issue. I consider myself a very spiritual person and I still go to church on occasion, but most of the time I'm not religious.

It's all the same thing to me, anyway.

Hey, KKC, come on over to the ELCA - all the pomp, none of the guilt LOL. Did you ever see the Cheers where Woody thought Kelly was going to go to hell because she was ELCA and he was Missouri Synod?

Anyway, I am Lutheran and our confirmation age is 9th grade (you get confirmed on the Pentecost of that year). You are then considered an adult in the eyes of the church. This used to be first communion age also, but that was changed and it is getting progressively younger. I think kids can now commune at age 7. Which trips me out, cause we use real wine.

[polarpi]

I go to a United Church of Christ congregation and the confirmation age is 9th grade. I joined the church my senior year, and I went through confirmation at 17 years of age (but I had been baptized at the age of 7). In our church it is a very traditional congregation where most members families have been attending this church for more than one generation, so there is an expectation on the children that they will go through confirmation in the ninth grade. I think it depends on the individual....some are fully committed and ready to go through confirmation, and others are going through because their parents "expect them to". A neat thing I saw last year was one of the members of the confirmation class was unable to go through confirmation with the rest of her class. The others went through on the original date, but when the other member was ready to go through a while later, the rest of the class came back and went through the confirmation ceremony all over again with her. It was the most touching thing I've ever seen!

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by 33girl
Anyway, I am Lutheran and our confirmation age is 9th grade (you get confirmed on the Pentecost of that year). You are then considered an adult in the eyes of the church. This used to be first communion age also, but that was changed and it is getting progressively younger. I think kids can now commune at age 7. Which trips me out, cause we use real wine.

Interesting. In the Catholic Church you have your first communion when you're in 2nd grade. It's a big deal - girls wear white dresses and veils, boys wear suits, there's a full Mass and the first people to receive communion are the boys and girls...

My parents' congregation rarely offered wine, but when they did, yep, it was the real thing.

ok, </hijack>

[SilverTurtle]

I think this is a really interesting topic. I'm very fascinated by religions in general.

I was raised -first- Baptist as a small kid, and then in a Grace Brethren church after about age 8. Both are your basic Christian denominations. There was/is no confirmation age. When a person is ready, they get saved. And as someone else mentioned, baptism is used as an expression of that. Although I was baptized in the baptist church, and then when I joined the GB church I had to be baptized as part of membership. (Which now I think was an odd requirement).

When it comes down to it, I believe in Christ as God's son, etc. However, I really don't accpet any 'church' religions. In fact, I'm very into Taoism & Buddhism as philosophies & draw a lot of parallels between these eastern religions & the teachings of Christ. So I guess none of my religious beliefs would call for confirmation.

I agree that religion is a pretty big decision for most kids, and I imagine the vast majority go through their respective ceremonies simply because that's what they're supposed to be doing at that age.

I can also value some of these ceremonies as "rites of passage" -something that in general is lacking in Western socieities. And some sociologist- type people think is an important step for kids to sort of grow up & 'cross over' into that state. I think if that's the case, 12 & 13 is way too young for our society. But I can respect their purpose in that sense, I guess.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by sigmagrrl
I got confirmed in Catholicism because I was expected to in seventh grade. In seventh grade, I was 11! So, I really had no say, but I can say now that I'm "borderline" Catholic. I don't agree with a lot of its teachings....I can't say I believe 100% in God; I don't know what I believe....

I was confirmed as a Catholic when I was 16 - in WI we do it our junior year of high school. I think that it's a horrible time to do it, because you're experiencing so many questions of faith. I was told my parents would not pay for college if I didn't get confirmed -even though my parents didn't get married in a church and rarely attend. I did it anyway and pretty much only go to Church for weddings and funerals. I dislike the way CCD classes are taught, because I was told to interpret the Bible literally and that even though God is supposed to be forgiving, he won't forgive you for things like premarital sex, the use of contraception, and abortion. How much sense does that make?

I think I've finally come to terms with my Catholicism now, my theology class (which, although at a Jesuit university, is being taught by a Anglican minister) is really helping me to understand things. I am looking forward to taking a class on American Catholic Thought, it looks interesting.

On a side note, I attended a Methodist church with GPBoy once, and also went there for his funeral. I am very unhappy with Protestant teachings at this point. At the funeral his minister (who knew I was Catholic, as were many of of Lee's friends) went into this thing about how we go to Heaven solely because God saves, not because we lived a good life. I was PO'ed, and still am, about that. A funeral is not the time to be searching for converts.