Is it time for new leadership?

ManndingoNUPE · #1 04-11-2001, 11:31 AM

Is it time for new leadership in the Black Community? The reason I ask this is because after looking at a program where they had Cornell West speaking about his new book, it brings to light some of the things that I have been feeling the past few years about our leadership.

To me, I much prefer to listen to intellectuals like Mr. West, Nai'm Akbar, Louis Farakhan, and politicians like Ford from Tennessee, and Jesse Jackson Jr from Chicago. This is no way a slap at what our leaders have done for us in the past. We are were we are because of people like Jesse, but sometimes I believe that for Jesse it becomes more about Jesse, and less about the people. I think that sometimes he is a bit of an egomaniac, and I don't think that Al Sharpton has what it takes to be a national leader. He wants Jesse's job, but when he makes statements comparing that fiasco in Florida where we were denied our constitutional right to vote, to the killing of 6 million Jews, I think he goes over the top a bit.

I guess I see the future of Black America resting on the shoulders of men and women who get out and work within the communities everyday. As Dr. West was saying the real heros are the ones who's names you will never know. The AKAtudes and the Professors and the Nupe4Lifes and the Zeta Aces and the MNs that do the work in their community. To me Jesse is to worried about making sure that his friends and family get rich, and making sure that his baby mama get paid.

I also think that our leadership is not open to dissenting voices within our community. If you go against what the leadership says, then you are in some way not black enough and things of that nature. I for one will not get on this love Bill Clinton ban wagon. While most of us did benefit from him being president, and if he could run again, I would vote for him. But as far as honesty and integrity go, to me he has none. He is just as corrupt as the next politician. My thing is, your claim to fame cannot be that well everyone else does it too. That doesn't make it right!

Sure folks hated him, and some of the charges and things that he was accused of were trumped up, but damn, every time he is accused of something, black folks got to be on tv defending him. Even his white counterparts in the Democratic party stopped defending his azz. We need to get off his d&^8!

I am sorta tired of black folks being the political whore of the Democratic party. Just wanted to hear what you guys thoughts on this were. I think that all to often we simply follow what our leadership says without questioning why they are telling us what they are.

We are at the beginning of a new century, and I believe that we need new approaches to dealing with the problems we face. While I do think that reparations are owed, we all know that they will never be paid. I would prefer something that would address the current funding of schools in the inner city as opposed to those in the suburbs. As you know, schools receive their funds via personal property taxes from the state. Now of course people in the burbs are going to have more money to fund their schools, thus leaving our inner city youth with the short end of the stick. Also we need to address the lack of capital in the inner city, and allow for tax breaks for companies who don't see the inner cities as a profitable venue.

Just some thoughts, I will get off of my soap box, and get my azz back to work.

Peace and Luv

MN

DoggyStyle82 · #2 04-11-2001, 01:43 PM

MN, good question. poor context. There is no need to beat up Jesse or Clinton. Both of them have personal foibles as powerful men are prone to have. That is symptomatic of the problem that we have. I think that Sharpton would be a more respected leader if he laid off the hyperbole and the pimp hairdo. I was very impressed with him at the Tavis Smiley symposium.

We have to be careful of painting ourselves into a corner. We are a much more diverse and educated people than in the heydey of the civil rights movement. Technically, we don't need leaders like we had then. We need leadership that will counteract the negativity of current Black popular culture. That is more genocidal than anything we face from "The Man" or federal government.

Martin, Malcolm, and others were focused on fighting systemic, institutional, racism and its kin. Now, our most pressing needs deal with behavior modification and moral decay. You can't fight the government for that or make corporate America give it to you. Leaders for that battle must come from the "village".

lastpoetnsite · #3 04-11-2001, 02:39 PM

much respect...

mandingonupe i have a question. why does the black community always need someone to "speak" for them? i am the president of the black student union at my university...my school being 85% white...and everytime they want someone to "speak" for the black folk they call me. although i am fairly well-versed on national politics and very involved in campus politics...particularly those that involve students of color...i often wonder why do they have to seek out that one voice? don't black people have a mind of their own? people like jesse jackson and al sharpton are self-appointed leaders. not that they haven't done a good job but i notice that no one asks..."hey white folx who are your spokesmen?"
just curious as to what you think about that.

next, doggystyle82 as we have bumped heads before i hope you will not see these questions as attacking you. but i am asking these questions with humble respect. jesse and clinton's infidelities were "personal foibles"? my brotha as strong as you are in your christian principles i would think that you would have a much harsher judgement of these two gentlemen. for not only did they violate the sanctity of marriage. they both lied about it (clinton in public and jesse through trying to keep it secret) and in jesse's case he is a minister...thus violating the bond that he has directly with God. I am curious as to why are they to be forgiven so gently...and yet in another thread you rained fire and brimstone down on another group. In this case...are you not being a little "soft" on your christian stance?

also...in your last line you stated...

Quote:

Martin, Malcolm, and others were focused on fighting systemic, institutional, racism and its kin. Now, our most pressing needs deal with behavior modification and moral decay.

are you honestly saying that systematic and institutional racism and its kin are not a problem? my brotha i must disagree...i think it was much easier to fight these things then because they were more obvious...people did not give pause to call someone a nigger or deny someone a job on the base of race. now it is much more insidious...and it exists...for instance recently our president select just eliminated Native American status of two Native American tribes. These two tribes have been two of his biggest opponents in Texas. And he did it without a big controversy. Now if that isn't systematic and institutionalized racism acted out at the highest level of our government then I don't know what is.

Although i am not sure what you mean by behavior modification. i do think that moral decay is a very interesting thing to say. Our society...the Amerikkkan society that we live in is schizophrenic...we claim that our foundation is Judeo-Christian in essence...and yet we are some of the most violent, hateful, prejudiced, ignorant, non-loving, aggressive, destructive, vindictive, manipulative, etc. individuals on this planet. where is morality in all this and even greater still...has there ever been a high standard of "morality" in this country?
From its inception there has been nothing but "immorality"...from the murder of Native Americans just so people could populate the land...to slavery...to jim crow...to internment of japanese during WWII...to the McCarthy Era...to having to fight for civil rights...to the vietnam war...to the 80's and the Reagan era...and on up to today...when has there ever been morality in this country?

these are just some questions and thoughts.

peace,
lastpoet

[This message has been edited by lastpoetnsite (edited April 11, 2001).]

NUPE4LIFE · #4 04-11-2001, 03:10 PM

Whew bra, Dr. Akbar? I live like across the street from his office here in Tallahassee. He's a dynamic man. But I have to agree with the poet, why do we need leadeship? I mean I just hate the fact that we have to have a national spokesperson. If there's an injustice in the world against blacks, why can't we stand up as a race and deal with the problem? I mean Jewish people and Cuban's in Miami don't have a spokesperson, but when there's a crisis they stick together. They all come out. We get lazy sometimes. Dr. King spoiled us, along with others who were at the forefront of the Civil Right's movement. And you wonder why we as a race don't any respect from the man (like we need any)? The man is sucking up to Jesse cause they feel like if they've made Jesse happy,then they've made us all happy. NOT! Let's take responsibility for ourselves and our own lives.

------------------
KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

Eclipse · #5 04-11-2001, 07:03 PM

Where to start where to start...There is so much I want to say here and so many previous posts I want to respond to! Great insightful comments by all...

New leadership...hummmmm....I agree that the days of "one" voice for African-Americans is long gone. But wait, have we ever had that one voice of leadership? I saw an interview with Andy Young once and he said that the notion that Blacks were unified in the 60s was just that...a notion. We were not unified then, and we are not unified now. Should we really be? As long as you are not sacrifacing folks for personal gain then I don't mind if your politics don't necessarily match mine. Just be ready to fight for yours and put your money where your mouth is when the chips are down.
The future of "Black leadership", I think, will be a diverse group, but we must learn how to move from retoric to action. The Million Man March was a beautiful thing. I got goosebumps watching it, but name we one substantive (sp?) action that came out of it. One program, one call to action that lead to a policy change, anything. I watch both of Tavis' ((sidenote: why do we call Black leader by their first name like we know them: Jesse, Martin, Malcolm, Tavis, et. al??)) symposiums and thought the dialouge was great, but where was the ACTION behind the dialouge?? Let's work on that for a while.
As lastpoet stated, legislative action will always be needed, but let's DO something as well. The Gov. of GA is trying to get legislation passed here that will require standardized testing at several levels in the public school system. "WE" are up in arms about it because statistics show that Black kids will be disproportionately fail these tests and therefore be held back. The NAACP et al are trying to block the legislation. Now, I don't know if I agree with that, but in the mean time, let's also talk about WHY our schools are doing so poorly and lets take some action to bring them up to snuff. Let's get on TV and convince folks to tutor in the innercity schools, not just picket the courthouse. Let's lobby for better teachers, not just lobby for the standardized test to fail.

DoggyStyle, I don't think anyone is beating up Jesse or Bill, but they need to be held accountable for their actions and know that there are consequences to their "foibles". While God forgave David for his actions (once he repented) he did hold him accountable.

Another thing that 'irks' me about our so called Black leadership is our silence when we do wrong. Several months ago a young, Black female who was mentally challenged was brutally raped by 20+ black men. Not one of our so-called black leaders spoke out against this, no one canvassed the neighborhood, stormed the police station talking about justice, etc., but if the perps had been WHITE, what do you think would have happen?? We need to be as hard, if not harder on our own folks.

Whew...I feel like I've gone off on a big ole tangent so I'll just shut up now!

DoggyStyle82 · #6 04-11-2001, 08:52 PM

LASTPOET: If you are president of the Black Students, whom do you think people should turn to? A freshman? A Greek? You are the elected representative of the Black students. You sought the position to represent the black voice on campus voice. That is what you are there for. Just like the Dean of Students goes to the SGA, who represent the whole student body.

I never forgave Jesse or Clinton of anything. I was just saying that in spite of personal conduct, both have been good for the advancement of Blacks in this country. My being a Christian is immaterial to the good that they have done. Why must you try to impugn Christianity with every post? Its got nothing to do with this conversation.

True enough, Jesse never appointed himself as a leader, but he has put his life on the line for every one of us. The question is is that each of us is our own leader, being educated and upwardly mobile.

Despite LASTPOET once again equating Christianity with murder, genocide, etc, we as Black individuals and communities have the power to stop AIDS, Alcoholism, Drug Addiction, Illegitamcy, Murder, Black on Black Crime and much of our own poverty if WE CHOSE to live a moral and upright life. Martin, Malcolm, Jesse, and whomever is not responsible for that, nor is that dreaded Great Satan Amerikka (I hate that by the way).

As I have stated elsewhere, you can not compare AA with Jews who came to this country with wealth, skills, education, and sense of national history and self and Cubans who came here as one entire upper middle class community. That is apples and oranges. Why do we have to beat ourselves up all the time? The vast majority of Black folks I know are thriving or maybe its just the ones I know that stayed in school, didn't get pregnant, rob someone, sell drugs, or stand around talking about what the white man is doing to keep them down. These people did not need a leader to know to do the right thing.

Finally, each of us are leaders and role models. We do need leaders (yes, like Jesse, Al Sharpton, Tavis and Tom Joyner, Bill Cosby, and countless others) to fight those institutions of entrenched unfairness and slanted government policies, but are we not the Masters of our Fates and the Captains of our Souls or was that just empty rhetoric?

[This message has been edited by DoggyStyle82 (edited April 11, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by DoggyStyle82 (edited April 11, 2001).]

AKA_Monet · #7 04-11-2001, 08:57 PM

Okay you guys... The real question is: Is there "one voice on one accord" for us negroes stuck in amerikkklan, really???

What you are hearing about Jesse is no mistake! If you think it WAS NOT purely planned to debunk the power that Jesse herrald then you are a fool... How in the hell can a man go over to the middle of Eastern Europe, where they ain't no kinda negroes in sight--not even half a one-- and single-handledly get a downed US fighter pilot outta that situation with barely any debriefing???

Do you think today's releasal of those poor US military personnel in China are NOT gonna get hell for letting a supposedly "classified" reconnaissence flight plane remain in China's midsts? "They" had an "eye the sky" looking at all the moves the Chinese made around that plane!!! Hell, they're gonna shoot that chit down the next time!!! Do you THINK that happened when Jesse got that man? HELL NO!!! NOT A PEEP from the Pentagon... AND THAT PLANE WAS A STEALTH FIGHTER JET!!! That is waaaaayyyy tooo much power for Jesse...

And I just saw Dr. Cornell West. He spoke at an university recently in my area. He was saying the same thing that the Pan Afrikanists have been talking about for decades!!! If you understand the nature of white supremacy, you understand at what lengths it will go to protect its perceived domination over the world. It is their utamaawazo. They have to do it. That is the way their cultural asili operates... And it will continue to operate that way as long as we remain blind to our divinity of the Universe...

So, NO. I don't care about Jesse or Na'im. Na'im should have known better to go on Tavis' mental State of Negro amerikkklan no matter how good his intentions were. I bet they didn't invite Wade Nobles or Laila O Afrika. Oh Hell NO!!! CSPAN would've made sure that feed was completely lost... If anything. Tavis shoulda put his mental State up with Magic's funding-- but then again, "they" would have incited some riots with the crack addicts---They shoulda had it in Nigeria or something like that--maybe, even an Indian Gaming Casino would've been better, but then it wouldn't have been aired on CSPAN... Oh well. We will neva truly be free from the bonds of enslavement...

VctoriasSecrt · #8 04-11-2001, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA_Monet:
Okay you guys... The real question is: Is there "one voice on one accord" for us negroes stuck in amerikkklan, really???

What you are hearing about Jesse is no mistake! If you think it WAS NOT purely planned to debunk the power that Jesse herrald then you are a fool... How in the hell can a man go over to the middle of Eastern Europe, where they ain't no kinda negroes in sight--not even half a one-- and single-handledly get a downed US fighter pilot outta that situation with barely any debriefing???

Do you think today's releasal of those poor US military personnel in China are NOT gonna get hell for letting a supposedly "classified" reconnaissence flight plane remain in China's midsts? "They" had an "eye the sky" looking at all the moves the Chinese made around that plane!!! Hell, they're gonna shoot that chit down the next time!!! Do you THINK that happened when Jesse got that man? HELL NO!!! NOT A PEEP from the Pentagon... AND THAT PLANE WAS A STEALTH FIGHTER JET!!! That is waaaaayyyy tooo much power for Jesse...

And I just saw Dr. Cornell West. He spoke at an university recently in my area. He was saying the same thing that the Pan Afrikanists have been talking about for decades!!! If you understand the nature of white supremacy, you understand at what lengths it will go to protect its perceived domination over the world. It is their utamaawazo. They have to do it. That is the way their cultural asili operates... And it will continue to operate that way as long as we remain blind to our divinity of the Universe...

So, NO. I don't care about Jesse or Na'im. Na'im should have known better to go on Tavis' mental State of Negro amerikkklan no matter how good his intentions were. I bet they didn't invite Wade Nobles or Laila O Afrika. Oh Hell NO!!! CSPAN would've made sure that feed was completely lost... If anything. Tavis shoulda put his mental State up with Magic's funding-- but then again, "they" would have incited some riots with the crack addicts---They shoulda had it in Nigeria or something like that--maybe, even an Indian Gaming Casino would've been better, but then it wouldn't have been aired on CSPAN... Oh well. We will neva truly be free from the bonds of enslavement...

I have to strongly and respectfully disagree with your last line AKA_Monet...I am NOBODY's slave, physically or mentally and as long as YOU choose to believe that you will never truly be free...you are exactly right...you NEVER will and no "great black hope" of a leader can effect any type of lasting and positive political and social change in the community as long as individuals choose to believe that the only state they are meant to be in is their present state of "oppression"...

buterscotch1 · #9 04-12-2001, 12:48 AM

Dang MN, have you ever considerd a career in politics? I agree with your statements, and yes we have heard/had these concerns voiced before, however many people in the Black community believe leaders for us are no longer needed and that "this is as good as it gets" or believes that one voice can't/wont't make a difference. However, there are others attending to "personal leadership", by working within their own communities, then hopefully working their way through the political ranks for more mass empowerment (truly for good, not cash and 15 minutes). Unfortunately, most of the great leadership that's community based goes unoticed. And the most discouraging of all is the "crabs in the pot" mentality that some have. If we don't learn to trust, honor, uplift, support and respect each other, leadship in the Black community is a long way off.

ManndingoNUPE · #10 04-12-2001, 09:08 AM

Ok no long post today, but I just wanted to touch on a few quick things.

- J. Jackson and B. Clinton have both contributed positively to the welfare of the black community, and the world at large. However, I still believe that for Jesse, it becomes more about him and less about our struggle. I wasn't even going into the personal stuff. That's between them, their families, and God. I am in no way throwing stones because I have fallen short on many occasions. But what I will do is hold people who put themselves up as our leaders accountable for their actions, and I believe that Jesse is an egomaniac, and Bill has no integrity. Hell that's my opinion, and I respect everyone else's so respect mine whether you like it or not.

-I also believe that the true leadership is in our communities at the grassroots level. Nationally I don't really think that we need or have someone who can speak for African Americans because we are such a diverse group. My problem is that you have all these people out here saying that they are the leadership. When G.Bush met with those black preachers, Jesse, the NAACP and the CBC were up in arms because he chose to go around the appointed leadership. None of them ever asked me if they represented me.

-While I agree that we are diverse, there are certain ties that bind us all as African Americans. Everyone of us should be concerned about our children getting a descent education that those young brothers that want to do right, have an option as opposed to being out there on the corner. When I ride through the city and see them out on the corner, I think "But for the grace of God, there I go."

Lastly, I agree that many times we have people who will sit up and talk for days, and preach a great sermon, and nothing will ever come of it. However, I can honestly say that I gain from dialogue like this. I love to talk to brothers and sisters from around the country and exchange views and opinions. I do agree that action is needed. I have devoped a program based on a mentoring program here in the district that I hope to have added to my chapter's Guide Right Program next fraternal year. To that end, I will keep GC informed of the program and it's progress.

I also challenge each of you, because you are all leaders in my eyes, to get or stay involved in your community, to make some type of positive change.

Ok, massa wants her financial reconciliation done and her report by COB Friday, so I will holler at yawl next week.

MN

"My head is bloodied but unbowed"

[This message has been edited by ManndingoNUPE (edited April 12, 2001).]

DST Love · #11 04-12-2001, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ManndingoNUPE:
- J. Jackson and B. Clinton have both contributed positively to the welfare of the black community, and the world at large. However, I still believe that for Jesse, it becomes more about him and less about our struggle. I wasn't even going into the personal stuff. That's between them, their families, and God. I am in no way throwing stones because I have fallen short on many occasions. But what I will do is hold people who put themselves up as our leaders accountable for their actions, and I believe that Jesse is an egomaniac, and Bill has no integrity. Hell that's my opinion, and I respect everyone else's so respect mine whether you like it or not.

[This message has been edited by ManndingoNUPE (edited April 12, 2001).]

I agree with you whole-heartedly!!

nikki25 · #12 04-12-2001, 10:31 AM

I'm glad to see a refreshing post such as this. I truly do believe that Black leadership must move toward an authentic concern for populations served. This genuine concern can be achieved whenever there is a connection with the community that there is professed concern with. That's why I agree, the perpetuity of leadership is in each of our hands. As we lead our homes, churches, schools, organizations, we are viewed as "Black leadership." It may not be national, but we are relied upon to represent the viewpoint of the community in a positive fashion and with knowledge of those served.

As I reflect on the foundations laid by Ella Baker, Fannie Lou Hamer, Gloria Richardson, Jo Ann Robinson; I know that those formerly serving the communities provide wonderful examples of women of authentic concern. I don't mind being in that number, because for me, the concern is real!

As we move forward, we must better use the resources that we have to serve our communities: computer technology, academic learnings, etc. Most importantly, we must allow the best resources: our heart and our love for God to guide and keep us as as we move forward.

I salute each of you as you take up the proverbial torch and lead your communities with the shining light that beams in your hearts!

lastpoetnsite · #13 04-12-2001, 11:19 AM

much respect...

i think that before i ask my question that i should clarify some issues from my first response.

when i asked the rhetorical question of why do white people come and find me when there is an "issue" with black people. i am really asking us to think about the position of the so-called black spokesperson. i am the president of the black student union. but i was not unanimously elected by all the black population. and i cannot speak for everyone. but i have noticed that when there is some "issue" with latino people they do not run to the president of united latinos. i don't think that my position makes me the UMM Black community's spokesperson. because i believe that each black person has their own mind.

also...when i made this statement...

Quote:

Our society...the Amerikkkan society that we live in is schizophrenic...we claim that our foundation is Judeo-Christian in essence...and yet we are some of the most violent, hateful, prejudiced, ignorant, non-loving, aggressive, destructive, vindictive, manipulative, etc. individuals on this planet. where is morality in all this and even greater still...has there ever been a high standard of "morality" in this country?
From its inception there has been nothing but "immorality"...from the murder of Native Americans just so people could populate the land...to slavery...to jim crow...to internment of japanese during WWII...to the McCarthy Era...to having to fight for civil rights...to the vietnam war...to the 80's and the Reagan era...and on up to today...when has there ever been morality in this country?

i was not saying that Judeo-Christianity was the "cause" of these things. Contrary to what you might believe i do not think that Judeo-Christianity is evil. Quite the contrary. My understanding of Judeo-Christianity is that it is a forgiving, loving, brotherhood providing, patient religion. But i do think that it has been used and twisted to spread hate and destroy those who do not believe.

my main question, my brotha Doggystyle82, was give me an example of a time when there was ever a high moral standard in this country? If we look at history...this country's so-called "discoverers" came with a bible in one hand and a smallpox infested blanket in another. claiming that the death of the nations indigenous people from the disease was God's will. was that moral? i'd say no. i am merely asking if we should "go back" to a time of high moral standards...where are we to go?

MandingoNupe and others...i am also an activist and i try desperately through programs and community service to implore people of color and black people specifically to become aware of the community at large, to be accountable to one another, and to work hard to build our communities. and there have been some successes...like the rise in voting on our campus during this election year...but the successes are few and far between.
the black student union on this campus is the most pro-active organization on campus. we have extensive community service projects, outstanding current and varied speakers, and discussions that are open and welcoming on current topics. but we can barely pull in 15 people to attend any activity at a time. when asked about their lack of attendance the answer is..."everything is cool now...we don't need a black student union."
but they will be the same people who will cry to the bsu when their prof makes a derogatory statement (which has happened this year on more than one occasion).

my question then is this...
why should i continue to uplift black people...if black people are not interested in uplifting themselves? how do i stay faithful to a cause that seems to be crumbling each day?

sorry that this was so long...

peace,
lastpoet

1 Woman of Virtue · #14 04-12-2001, 11:19 AM

Of course we need new leadership. Every generation does. If we did not, we would constantly find ourselves relying on the dreams of our ancestors, and not pursuing our own. But I agree w/ a previous post, we have to lead in EVERY AREA OF LIFE. It's not enough to have a great national figure, it's not fair to them because they just can't do it all. And it 's not fair to us, because we put all of our eggs in one basket.

We need more Black people looking into community re-development programs, start buying up property and houses and if you're going to sell, try to keep it in the famliy. Don't just lead in the church because there are a whole lot of people who never see the inside of a sancturary, and they need help too. Do the little things, like going to town hall meetings (and not just the ones on the "State of the Black Union"), be active in the PTA, don't just get involved in small business--get involved in industry, don't just particpate in food drives, help start up a community food bank. Our leadership MUST be present in all of these areas, and more. In order to continue (?) to advance, our generation needs to expand our concept of leadership.

And don't believe the hype. Black people are getting on the ball. Seems like every where I go nowadays, I'm meeting young Black professionals, who are making money buy serving the Black community. It is possible, and it is being done. Props to MN for bringing up the topic!

DoggyStyle82 · #15 04-12-2001, 05:11 PM

I really hope that learned people on GreekChat can read through the bullspit that LASTPOETINSITE passes off as intellectual discourse. She says she is not saying something, then says it two sentences later. I won't argue with her.

MANDINGONUPE:
We don't disagree on the Jesse or Clinton, I just don't let that color my opinion of the good that they have done. It distracts us from our goal and drags us to a level of pettiness that hinders progress.

DST LOVE:

You agree with MN but you said nothing about the question which was leadership. See, thats how we get sidetracked worrying about personalities and personal foibles when that is merely a distraction and not the issue. That is why I wish that Sharpton would rid himself of that stupid process and pimp suits because it distracts from his frquent good works.

That being said, we are all our own leaders, but sometimes we do need a centalized motivational force or a few dynamic spokesmen to argue our cause.

Each one teach one, Each one Reach one. He's not heavy, he's my brother!!!!