kindness.....

DeltaSigStan · #1 01-04-2004, 05:23 AM

Can someone help me with this?

Someone recently brought to my attention the fact that I'm "too nice" to women, and that it's often percieved as "weakness". This evidently explains a lot for me, but I always thought I was being a gentleman (yeah, pretty lame eh?).

Anyway, at what point are you being nice and at what point are you being a pushover, and probably entering the Friend Zone?

_Opi_ · #2 01-04-2004, 05:31 AM

Stan,

It's amazing how many women perceive sincere niceness as being a pushover. I never really did understand the phrase "nice guys finish last" cuz who in the hell would date a jerk?

Was that other person a guy or a girl you were seeing? and what did they make that comment (give an example).

I know it sounds kinda corny, but "be yourself". Be a gentleman cuz there sure is a shortage of 'em!

sororitygirl2 · #3 01-04-2004, 05:35 AM

I agree with Opi - be yourself. If you are just a nice guy, you have nothing to worry about and the right girl will appreciate it and love you for it.

If you are a pushover and are lacking in self-confidence though, I think it is a total turnoff, and you need to find out how to fix that.

Without more information, it's hard to say though... Can you give examples of your nice-or-possibly-pushover behavior?

justamom · #4 01-04-2004, 12:03 PM

It's a curse, but it's not limited to males. Example, "I think of her as a sister..."
First off-If she isn't a dear friend, don't do anything for a girl JUST because she asks! Too many users out there. "Help me move my furniture...................so I can go out tonight with my friends." NO!
"Help me move my furniture and we can order pizza." YES

I don't think it's all about being nice or not. I think it has more to do with your "stock value" so to speak.
Why were certain girls or guys popular in HS? We all know that several were not the most attractive ones, and heaven knows some of the people with the greatest personalities went without those party invites. These people who were physically beautiful or outrageously personable, never got on the popularity radar screen the same as the late bloomers or the socially inexperienced sat home on Sat. night.
People want what they can't have.
How many TV shows depict the "nerdy" guy or girl longing for the most popular person in school? EVERYone is in LUHV with them and only a FEW have a chance...supply and demand.
What made them so special? One of course was charisma. Elusive combination of self confidence, wit, personality and the ability to make others feel included.
Whoever possessed what was valued at the time became "popular." Sports-humor-partying-boobs-right clothes CAR, money on and on.
So now you're in college. What has changed? What can you offer? These are some of the leftover factors people use to gage your "value". No doubt, this is not mature.
All it takes is for ONE top tier person who is respected within a group to see you as desirable. Suddenly, it's like a light bulb! EVERYone sees you differently. (Of COURSE, there are always exceptions)
Some simple game rules-
Work your way to the object of your desire-enter the group through the back door. Mentally seduce one of the weaker members she will start talking about how "hot" you are and others will start taking a second look.
Create an aura of "value" around yourself.
Be unavailable at times-make her think you have LOTS of other women in your life.
Wait till she actually looks you in the eye before you allow her to think you notice her.
Have great guy stories to share so they will slap you on the back and hang out with you. This will bring MORE girls around.
BUT-if you don't want to play the game, look beyond the pack mentality and open yourself to finding the right person in an unexpected place. I will honestly say that being a nice guy usually translates into being an exceptional lover, husband and father. Not all women have figured this out!

pirepresent · #5 01-04-2004, 12:16 PM

wow, justamom, that's some of the best advice on this subject i have ever seen!! you totally hit it on the head!

the only thing i would add is that i think a lot of women grow out of the whole not-dating-"nice"-guys phase by the end of college, because usually by then most women have dated one or more complete jerks who treat them badly. when women realize that while these people may be "cool", they're not going to change into nice boyfriends, then they're ready to wake up and be smart about who they date.

at least, that's been my experience in my own life and with my friends. don't worry stan, soon women will be throwing themselves at your feet when they realize the value of a gentleman. i think it's almost like you have to experience the bad to appreciate the good, you know?

HotDamnImAPhiMu · #6 01-04-2004, 12:18 PM

Justamom rocks.

Stan, let's hear the whole story.

DeltaSigStan · #7 01-04-2004, 01:42 PM

PM me if you REALLY wanna know, and I can be more....intricate.

honeychile · #8 01-04-2004, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HotDamnImAPhiMu
Justamom rocks.

A Definite co-sign for JAM!!!!

valkyrie · #9 01-04-2004, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sororitygirl2
If you are a pushover and are lacking in self-confidence though, I think it is a total turnoff, and you need to find out how to fix that.

That's really it -- in my past, when I've dated guys who were too nice, the problem was really that they seemed to be lacking self esteem and confidence. I didn't want to date a guy who said things to me like, "You're so beautiful. Why are you with me?" because after a while, I don't know why I'm with you if you're so insecure.

I think that usually calling a guy "too nice" is really a code for something else -- usually it's that the guy is coming off as a wuss who won't stand up for himself or who has no self esteem, or, in the alternative, that particular woman doesn't find him attractive and it's an easy way to get out without seeming mean or bitchy.

DeltaSigStan · #10 01-04-2004, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie
or, in the alternative, that particular woman doesn't find him attractive and it's an easy way to get out without seeming mean or bitchy.

Ah, the dreaded, yet often used, "You're too good of a friend".

HotDamnImAPhiMu · #11 01-04-2004, 04:17 PM

valkyrie does have a good point, Stan. It's hard for a girl to be attracted to you if you don't have any self-esteem.... do you think that's the trouble?

DeltaSigStan · #12 01-04-2004, 04:19 PM

Read your PM. It's not that....

Colonist · #13 01-04-2004, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltaSigStan
Can someone help me with this?

Someone recently brought to my attention the fact that I'm "too nice" to women, and that it's often percieved as "weakness". This evidently explains a lot for me, but I always thought I was being a gentleman (yeah, pretty lame eh?).

Anyway, at what point are you being nice and at what point are you being a pushover, and probably entering the Friend Zone?

Nice guys do finish last

as bad as it sounds most girls go for guys who are act like assholes. Back in the day I tried the nice thing, it doesn't work bud.

DeltaSigStan · #14 01-04-2004, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colonist
Nice guys do finish last as bad as it sounds most girls go for guys who are act like assholes. Back in the day I tried the nice thing, it doesn't work bud.

Well, that's the problem. With me, everyone thinks I'm either I'm too nice or I'm an asshole. Where's that happy medium? No matter what it's always percieved as the extreme right/left.

AUDeltaGam · #15 01-04-2004, 04:58 PM

I don't see anything wrong with a guy being really nice