Hawai'i

Optimist Prime · #1 12-06-2003, 09:44 PM

Okay, I've done some thinking. Hawai'i needs to change their flag at once. It is totally unaceptable to have the Union Jack in the canton of their state flag. We faught a revolution against Britain for indepedence and then bacame the United States of America. One of those states cannot use the flag of the country we had a revolution against. Hawai'i is America, and is American soil, not some British colony or "member of the Commonwealth of Nations" whatever that is.

Kevin · #2 12-07-2003, 01:31 AM

Yah, those bastards ended up with most of the best vacation islands around.. Then they gave them independence.. Well... except the Falklands. Long live the Empire.

kappaloo · #3 12-07-2003, 02:16 AM

Couldn't it be a tribute to history? I would think that a union jack on a flag couldn't make you feel so threatened.

(a lot of Canada's provinces still use the union jack, and we're just as independant.. though... we didn't need to have a revolution for that...) :P

Kevin · #4 12-07-2003, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kappaloo
Couldn't it be a tribute to history? I would think that a union jack on a flag couldn't make you feel so threatened.

(a lot of Canada's provinces still use the union jack, and we're just as independant.. though... we didn't need to have a revolution for that...) :P

Damn you Canadians and your nonviolent ways...

...From my cold dead hands...

kappaloo · #5 12-07-2003, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
Damn you Canadians and your nonviolent ways...

...From my cold dead hands...

I read somewhere that per person, Canada has more guns than the States... (noooo idea if that's actually true or read out of the Today section of the Newspaper)... we just don't kill eachother with them as much.

Kevin · #6 12-07-2003, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kappaloo
I read somewhere that per person, Canada has more guns than the States... (noooo idea if that's actually true or read out of the Today section of the Newspaper)... we just don't kill eachother with them as much.

I think that statistic is true. The numbers are mind boggling. Michael Moore's documentary "Bowling for Columbine" discussed this statistic.

It's an interesting documentary whether you agree with it or not.

#7 12-07-2003, 01:19 PM

Hawai`i is only the United States because OUR land was stolen BY FORCE by the United States Government in 1893 with the overthrow of Queen Lili`uokalani. It's a part of history that often gets overlooked in the history books.

I am not anti-American, but I do consider myself Hawaiian before all things. It is my culture that I am very proud of, more proud of the label known as my citizenship.

When Hawai`i became a state in 1959, the flag was chosen by AMERICANS DESCENDED FROM THE GROUP WHO ENCOURAGED THE OVERTHROW OF THE MONARCHY. That is why you see many upside down Hawaiian flags flying around the state. It's a sign of protest.

For those who don't know, this is the true flag of the Hawaiian nation:

The Hawaiian Independence Flag consists of three horizontal bars, white, gold, and black (top to bottom), with the black and white each occupying one quarter of the flag, and the gold filling the central half. In the center of the gold rests a purple kahili.
The white and black bars represent the balance of all things - Heaven and Earth, night and day, the positive and negative. The gold represents the entire human `ohana (family), with precious life as pure as golden light. The purple represents the original inhabitants of the Hawaiian Archipelago, Na Kanaka Maoli, caretakers of the Spirit of Aloha. The Kahili is an ancient symbol of communication between Heaven and Earth, inspiring leadership of the `ohana. The Kahili is embraced by La`i, leaves of Ti, a sacred plant of Hawai`i with powers of spiritual protection and healing.

And though this is off topic, the " ' " apostrophe is NOT part of the Hawaiian vocabulary. " ` " is appropriate because it represents the `okina, the glottal stop. So Hawai'i should really read Hawai`i.

Optimist Prime · #8 12-07-2003, 02:19 PM

Make your state flag the National flag then, state flags change all the time now. Most of them are just some seal and motto on a plain background. Except maryland, theirs is interesting. I like the national Hawai'i. That should be your flag.

godfrey n. glad · #9 12-07-2003, 02:34 PM

So, you're upset about Hawaii's use of the Union Jack, but no mention of Mississippi's use of the Confederate flag within their state flag? See here IIRC, the Confederate State of America lost a war to the United States of America, just as the UK did, so I would think anyone that had a problem with Hawaii's state flag would also have a problem with Mississippi's.

::shrug:: I don't know, I don't have a problem with either one. It may "say something" about the state to me, but I certainly have no business saying whether it is right or wrong.

kafromTN · #10 12-07-2003, 04:42 PM

Mississippi does not use the Confederate Flag in their flag. The canton is that of the Confederate battle flag. The Confederate flags used the same canton in many instances, but they are in fact seperate entities.

You can read more on this link:
http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html

-Mark

(edited to correct spelling)

Optimist Prime · #11 12-07-2003, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by godfrey n. glad
So, you're upset about Hawaii's use of the Union Jack, but no mention of Mississippi's use of the Confederate flag within their state flag? See here IIRC, the Confederate State of America lost a war to the United States of America, just as the UK did, so I would think anyone that had a problem with Hawaii's state flag would also have a problem with Mississippi's.

::shrug:: I don't know, I don't have a problem with either one. It may "say something" about the state to me, but I certainly have no business saying whether it is right or wrong.

I have a problem with that too. I've already talked about that before though.

godfrey n. glad · #12 12-07-2003, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kafromTN
Mississippi does not use the Confederate Flag in their flag. The canton is that of the Confederate battle flag. The Confederate flags used the same canton in many instances, but they are in fact seperate entities.

You can read more on this link:
http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html

-Mark

(edited to correct spelling)

How does that bear on the point of this thread? The point was that a state that is part of the United States uses a flag that appears to be revering a symbol of a past enemy. So, the point stands, regardless of whether it is a battle flag, an official flag, etc.

DeltAlum · #13 12-08-2003, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OohTeenyWahine
Hawai`i is only the United States because OUR land was stolen BY FORCE by the United States Government in 1893 with the overthrow of Queen Lili`uokalani.

I suppose you could argue that technically the Native Americans didn't form states, and thus no states were "stolen BY FORCE" by the government -- but their (our) land certainly was.

Were many Hawaiians forced to live on reservations?

Neither is right or just. I think I'd rather live on Maui than in Stillwater, though.

#14 12-08-2003, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Were many Hawaiians forced to live on reservations?

Neither is right or just. I think I'd rather live on Maui than in Stillwater, though.

It'd be nice if we HAD some reservations.

When the overthrow took place and the Americans came in, it wasn't so much of a land issue. It was more of a culture issue. No Hawaiian was to be spoken anywhere at anytime. They attempted to take our culture away and wipe it out completely. My great-great-grandfather Kawewehi was placed in jail because he got caught performing his SUNDAY SERMON in Hawaiian.

The closest thing we have to native reservations are Hawaiian Homelands, but that wasn't established till the late 50s. After the overthrow of the monarchy, about 90% of the lands were ceded to the US Government. Some of these lands include the Honolulu International Airport and the University of Hawai`i. The rest were eventually bought by businessmen who saw $$$ opportunity. Lots of Hawaiian activist groups know that these lands can never be reclaimed, so they're asking for financial restitution. $$$ for the education of Native Hawaiian children and development of programs for the betterment of the people.

So we have this issue of Hawaiian Homelands. It's a deparment run by the state that provides affordable housing for Native Hawaiians who are at least 50% Hawaiian. The thing is though, that there isn't enough land to build more homes. The waiting list is long and some people on the list pass away before even being able to get a home. And you'd think that the land would be good too. The American government tells us "Ok, here's some land...go build your house and good luck." Oh -- and did I mention that these lands are practically the crappiest in the state? Waimanalo's always rainy and flooding, Wai`anae is too dry, and Papakolea's in the mountains...not optimal at all for farming, but decent enough for living, I guess.

lifesaver · #15 12-09-2003, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OohTeenyWahine
Hawai`i is only the United States because OUR land was stolen BY FORCE by the United States Government in 1893 with the overthrow of Queen Lili`uokalani. It's a part of history that often gets overlooked in the history books.

I am not anti-American, but I do consider myself Hawaiian before all things. It is my culture that I am very proud of, more proud of the label known as my citizenship.

When Hawai`i became a state in 1959, the flag was chosen by AMERICANS DESCENDED FROM THE GROUP WHO ENCOURAGED THE OVERTHROW OF THE MONARCHY. That is why you see many upside down Hawaiian flags flying around the state. It's a sign of protest.

For those who don't know, this is the true flag of the Hawaiian nation:

The Hawaiian Independence Flag consists of three horizontal bars, white, gold, and black (top to bottom), with the black and white each occupying one quarter of the flag, and the gold filling the central half. In the center of the gold rests a purple kahili.
The white and black bars represent the balance of all things - Heaven and Earth, night and day, the positive and negative. The gold represents the entire human `ohana (family), with precious life as pure as golden light. The purple represents the original inhabitants of the Hawaiian Archipelago, Na Kanaka Maoli, caretakers of the Spirit of Aloha. The Kahili is an ancient symbol of communication between Heaven and Earth, inspiring leadership of the `ohana. The Kahili is embraced by La`i, leaves of Ti, a sacred plant of Hawai`i with powers of spiritual protection and healing.

And though this is off topic, the " ' " apostrophe is NOT part of the Hawaiian vocabulary. " ` " is appropriate because it represents the `okina, the glottal stop. So Hawai'i should really read Hawai`i.

I think your National Flag Rocks. I do think it would look better tho with Lilo and Stitch on it tho. lol. YOU KNOW I LOVE YA. Seriously, as one of the few kids on here who considers himself a citizen of his state first and an American second, you rock with that. I got your back.