Sell Out???

[Sunshine14]

I was just wondering if I am wrong for thinking that Blacks who are Republicans or Blacks who join white sororities and fraternities are some how selling out to the black race?? I was reading a past post on Condoleeza Rice and Collin Powell and remembered what I read in Lawrence Graham's Book "Our Kind of People". I remember him stating in the last chapter that one of the sure ways for blacks to pass as whites is to become a Republican and join white groups and their ideas. Basically, anything that dosen't concern blacks...do it! Also I just read a post that stated Condoleeza Rice is also a member of a white sorority, Alpha Chi Omega. After reading that, I really started wondering about her views as a black woman. What do you think? Am I looking too deep into this or is there some validity to my thought's? Are blacks that join the Republican Party and other white social groups (sororities and fraterniteis) considered to be sell outs?

[AKA2D '91]

I don't know about "sell outs", but I do know a person whom I work with feels that joining organizations for "blacks" will not "do ANYTHING" for her! Prior to this "realization", she was a member of many professional organizations which catered to blacks. Also, she wore her hair in a natural, then "realized" that it would be better to wear a perm/texturizer....Also, she was once a member of a "FULL GOSPEL" church, then became a Catholic...

NO OFFENSE TO ANY...

Her ideology basically, "white is right"

She and Condoleeza could probably be "bosom buddies"

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Originally posted by Sunshine14:
I was just wondering if I am wrong for thinking that Blacks who are Republicans or Blacks who join white sororities and fraternities are some how selling out to the black race??

YES.

Since when is Blackness defined by political beliefs or greek letter affiliation?

------------------
"There is only one religion, though there are a hundred versions of it." ~George Bernard Shaw



[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited January 23, 2001).]

[Rain Man]

I gotta ask, if that is true, does the fact that I am an Alpha Phi Omega (as opposed to, say, Alpha Phi Alpha) makes me a sell-out? Does the fact that I chose to live in the 'burbs as opposed to the 'hood make me a sell-out? Does the fact that I voted for Howard Phillips for president make me a sell-out? Does the fact that I believe there are some white people in the world that have treated me better than some black people make me a sell-out? What makes a sell-out??

Rain Man

[straightBOS]

Originally posted by Rain Man:
I gotta ask, if that is true, does the fact that I am an Alpha Phi Omega (as opposed to, say, Alpha Phi Alpha) makes me a sell-out? Does the fact that I chose to live in the 'burbs as opposed to the 'hood make me a sell-out? Does the fact that I voted for Howard Phillips for president make me a sell-out? Does the fact that I believe there are some white people in the world that have treated me better than some black people make me a sell-out? What makes a sell-out??

Rain Man

If you feel that in order to advance yourself, your position in life, or feel better about yourself you must turn your bakc on your race, you are a sell-out. The word does NOT only apply to Black people, as people of all races have sell-outs.

Question:
Why would you feel the need to ask? Are you second-guessing your choices in life?

[Bobby Earl]

Good point Straight BOS and Good question Sunshine 14,

Still,
"Selling Out" has a far greater impact on the black race than it does on the white race.

The emphasis should not be placed so much on how we do, but on what we do. You can be a BAPTIST, a member of a black frat/sorority, live in the ghetto, Democrat, etc... and still "Sell Out". In my opinion, it's all about being true to yourself, your family, your heritage, and your race. Pledge what you want to pledge. Vote how you want to vote. Pray how you want to pray. Live where you want to live. Just don't ever forget who we are as a people and the struggles that our BLACK ancestors had to go through to get us where we are today. If how you live your life does not compliment, in ANY way, the past and present struggles that blacks often go through, THEN YOU ARE A SELL OUT.

In my opinion, of course...
(I gotta watch myself, people are sensitive up in this camp...)


[This message has been edited by Bobby Earl (edited January 23, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bobby Earl (edited January 23, 2001).]

[spankee]

This is a tough topic but I'll give it my best shot.

In the past most, if not all, blacks were fighting for the same thing, equal rights. Whether you were rich or poor, you didn't have the same rights as whites. Now that we are equal(i know that is subject to debate) there doesn't seem to be a common struggle for our people. Those that feel successful may feel like "what struggle "? . Those that haven't achieved the American Dream are left looking for leadership that doesn't exist. Class seems to be just as much of a divider as race.

As far as joining a WGLO....People will go where they feel most comfortable, maybe Condoleeza wasn't accepted by her African American peers. I have seen it a thousand times.

I wouldn't consider it "selling out" unless someone does something detrimental to their own race to gain acceptance/advancement among another race. Since when do we have to think the same way because we are of the same race?

[This message has been edited by spankee (edited January 23, 2001).]

[Sunshine14]

I'm not saying that Blackness should be defined with what political party you're in but lets be real, the democratic party does the most for minorities in general. As for Republicans, they are conservatives which in my dictionary means "not for change, keeping things as they are" I guess it just kinda amazes me that some people are more comfortable or cater to those who I would think share very dissimilar views. But I'm human and I could be wrong. As for you Rain Man you have totally gone off on a tangent and missed my point all together. Re-read the original post! It's just kinda wierd that she grew up in segrgated B'ham attended the historical 16th St Baptist church and went off to college and felt a stronger bond with whites. I just hope that she doesn't turn out to be another Clarence Thomas. As far as Colin Powell, I honestly believe he's staright. He's proven himself as a strong leader for not only minorities but America as a whole!

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by spankee:


As far as joining a WGLO....People will go where they feel most comfortable, maybe Condoleeza wasn't accepted by her African American peers. I have seen it a thousand times.

Historically, BLACKS/AFRICAN AMERICANS, or whatever label you want to use, have been the most ACCEPTING people on the planet!

So what is that all about?

Maybe Condoleeza et.al. have been soooooo removed from the "experience" that she could not "relate" to the plight of the community and the BGLOs...

In my opinion, of course...It's just a thought...

[mccoyred]

IMHO, selling out is not WHAT you do, it is WHY you do it.

I attended Johns Hopkins because they gave me a full scholarship and Spelman didn't; not because I perceived it as 'better'. Yet I had some Black classmates (who shall remain nameless) who were so 'integrated' that if you told them they were Black, they would have looked at you like you were speaking Greek (pun intended?) and then would have thrown a hissy-fit about not 'labeling', 'why can't I be just a person, not a Black person', yada-yada-yada. If you asked them to name ONE HBCU, they couldn't. To me, THAT is selling out.

------------------
MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

[ManndingoNUPE]

While I do agree that we are an accepting people, I believe that we are far less accepting of our own whos views stray away from mainstream African American views.

If Condolezza Rice wants to join a white sorr. If she wants to go to thier churches, whatever, that's on her. I really don't care. We spend way too much time demonizing each other, becuase we have different viewpoints.

Black is a state of being, not a philosopy, or an ideology. Either you are black or you are not (Period) Nothing that she does can change the fact that she is black, and I don't recall hearing her say that she was anything other than a proud African American. Regardless of her views.

As far as being a "sell-out" or a "Tom" whatever term that is used. I try my best not to use it. I don't agree with everything that the democrats do or think. But I vote Democratic because they tend to be with me on most of the issues. But if I find a Republican who shares my views I am going to vote for him/her, and F^&K what anyone thinks. Rainman, why should you even ask anyone for validation? Validate yourself. If I want to move to the burbs, then I will move to the burbs. If you don't pay my rent, then you have no say on where or how I live.

The realy sad part is that I believe we have been so brainwashed that we fail sometimes to look at things through our own eyes, and not through the lenses of what our current "Black Leadership" thinks. I got mad luv for Jesse and the other "Media/Self" appointed black leadership, but I believe that they tend to speak for a smaller population than they use to.

Sunshine14, No one can tell you how to view these people. I personally believe in live and let live. I can disagree with my brothers and sisters who are in the Republican Party on issues. I don't have to resort to calling folks names. That's childish, and I am far from childhood.

MN

"Many are called, few are chosen, and some just get knocked the f$%* out"

[Eclipse]

Being conservative in and of itself does not make someone a sell-out.. You know who I consider sell-outs?
Those African-American men and women who sell drugs in our communities

Those professional athletes/entertainers/business people who are making PHAT $$$ who do absolutely nothing to give back to the community.

Black folks who feel like if they speak to the (usually Black) custodial worker in the office then their white co-workers will realize that they are black too!!

Those Black folks who think the white man's ice is colder!

Black entertainers who feel absolutely no responsibility for the filth that they put on TV/in records, but are all about the bling-bling!

Mothers or Fathers who abuse/neglect/don't support their black children

Black business owners who sell inferior products at inflated prices then EXPECT you to support them!

ALL SELL_OUTS!!!


Just because a person has idealogical differences does not mean that they are sell outs. Example: some blacks do not believe in afirmative action. They believe that the best way for blacks to reach equality in this society is for them (us) to delay gratification, open our own businesses, take advantage of SMB loans, etc. Now I don't necessarily think that someone who believes that, no matter how misguided I think they are, is a sell-out

[serenity_24]

In todays society, blacks folks are confused. There are so many divides. Even on this forum we still debate over natural or perm, and wether or not you buy black owned products. While these are relevent debates, time could be put to better use thinking of ways to keep our children safe, healthy, educated and fed, then we can work on the inner healing of our people. We are in desperate need of unity. Therefore, when I see people in possitions of power who chose to use that power to negate the struggles of our ancestors (some of which whom are still living), I find it offensive. This includes, but is not limited to: people against affirmative action without any other suggested replacements, people who join organizations that do nothing to aid our communities, people who sell drugs on the corner to their own families, people who use those drugs sold on the corner by their own families, and the list goes on. Nonetheless, I can't call them sell outs, they are just confused.

My last comment is this. It is fine to have your own opinion and not think like the masses, but just as it is in any family, we may not agree but come to us first with your concerns. Let's talk about them and make compromises. Let's not be so quick to run to outsiders for their opinions on our family problems.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by Sunshine14:
As for you Rain Man you have totally gone off on a tangent and missed my point all together. Re-read the original post!

OK, I'll say it like this: WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?? All too often we get hung up on being "blacker than thou" when we should be just seeing things from a people perspective. And raising IMHO trivial examples such as fraternal or political party affiliation only makes things worse. We often forget that the mindset of Black people is not collective monolithic. Instead of us seeing ourselves as Blacks who think we are too Black or too White or whatever, we should see ourselves as people being ourselves, but happens to be Black, as is the case with Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, and even Clarence Thomas. Ask the Lord to help you find your purpose, and once He does so, you will be too engulfed in fulfilling it to be hung up on illusionary "oaths of Blackness".

StraightBOS: I am NOT second-guessing ANY choice in my life - I worked hard to get where I am and I will be glad to empower those interested in doing the same things to acheive similar goals, Black or White. I am VERY proud of the fruits of my labor and make no regrets for it.

Good lookin' out, MN. You're right, I need no validation from anyone; I was just being hypothetical in my questioning.

Gotta get to class.

RM

[Sunshine14]

Look!! 1st off this is a chat forum which makes it a place to raise debateable issues and express different view points. It is quite obvious Rainman that this shoe fits your foot perfectly. Again, I did not direct anything to you. But it seems as though you've gotten your feelings hurt over an issue that obviously concerns you. I don't know you and I honestly don't care where you live and who you associate with. I merely asked a debateable question about Condoleeza Rice's affiliations. I still wonder about her views as a black woman considering these affiliations. It may not be hard for you to relate since you seem to fit the mold but it is for me. I never called you a sell out, hell I don't even know you. I guess you've been called that before the reason you're taking this so seriously! I never called anyone a sell out I merely asked a question to get other EDUCATED views not to throw stones and argue back and forth about insecurities! If she chooses to have these affiliations so be it, more power to her, and for the record I never called her a name!! I simply raised a question!