Risk Management Insurance

[boz130]

My work w/various Lambda Chi Alpha chapters has taken me to schools all around the country.

Many chapters that are teetering on the brink of collapse seem to have one thing in common: despite warnings from our traveling consultants or interested alumni, the members insist that they can do pretty much whatever they want.

The reason for this is simple, and I'm quoting: "It's okay, we've got insurance with Lloyd's of London." For the record, the school I heard this at has placed LCA on a 5-year suspension. The house has been sold, and it's difficult to say at this point if they'll ever return to campus. With that said, here are my queries...

Do other GLOs have this same attitude? How many groups is Lloyd's backing? Have you found that alumni/ae involvement has helped in situations like this?

RE: the last point, I'm not sure if it helps in some instances because many of the LCA alums @ this august institution were just as crazed as the undergrads. Their primary reason for coming back to school for Homecoming was to get geezed and par-tay.

I know it's the end of the school year, and people are thinking about their summer vacations ("Oh, boy, gas here is only $2.13/gallon!"). Any thoughts on this are greatly appreciated.

Thanks--

[DeltAlum]

Bill,

I don't know whether Lloyds is the common factor, but I think there are probably a number of chapters in every fraternity who have that attitude.

Unfortunately, it takes a suspension or closing to fix the problem, and sometimes a re-colonization works for a while and then goes down the same road that closed the chapter before.

I don't have an answer.

[Rudey]

I have never heard that but if that chapter is seriously that dumb, then perhaps you should re-evaluate whether they are worthy of the insurance since they bring so much risk to you.

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Rudey
I have never heard that but if that chapter is seriously that dumb, then perhaps you should re-evaluate whether they are worthy of the insurance since they bring so much risk to you.

-Rudey

You're right. That's being done in some Delt Chapters -- but we can't be with them all at all times.

From a national (and advisor) standpoint, it's a real problem.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
You're right. That's being done in some Delt Chapters -- but we can't be with them all at all times.

From a national (and advisor) standpoint, it's a real problem.

I don't tell people how to run chapters or fraternities. I like to do that only with my own. But it seems to me that when you've decided to expand to so many campuses, of varying intellect and risk, you would want to somehow get that level of risk down by, for example, having specific chapter advisors for each chapter.

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Rudey
I don't tell people how to run chapters or fraternities. I like to do that only with my own. But it seems to me that when you've decided to expand to so many campuses, of varying intellect and risk, you would want to somehow get that level of risk down by, for example, having specific chapter advisors for each chapter.

-Rudey

Absolutely. We try to have an advisor, asst. advisor, house corp. committee (alum and actives) for every chapter. We also try to have mentors. In addition, we try to have a Division VP for every few chapters (that's was I was until recently) to back up the Advisors.

Problem is that, depending on the chapter location, we might not have enough (or any) alums in the area willing to donate the time and energy. In addition, there are potential liability problems for advisors now -- even though the Fraternity has insurance for them as well.

In some cases, we have house mothers or even proctors -- and if they're strong enough, that may be one of the strongest solutions because the advisor doesn't live at the house and can't be a 24/7 pair of eyes and ears.

And, in reality, the other problem is that some (usually younger) alums are as crazy at the undergraduates.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
In addition, there are potential liability problems for advisors now -- even though the Fraternity has insurance for them as well.


And, in reality, the other problem is that some (usually younger) alums are as crazy at the undergraduates.

Why are advisors a liability? I never heard that before. Is it because they're "crazy as the undergraduates"? I guess I never saw anything in the news about advisors being labilities...

-Rudey

[LXAAlum]

Originally posted by boz130
Many chapters that are teetering on the brink of collapse seem to have one thing in common: despite warnings from our traveling consultants or interested alumni, the members insist that they can do pretty much whatever they want.

The reason for this is simple, and I'm quoting: "It's okay, we've got insurance with Lloyd's of London." For the record, the school I heard this at has placed LCA on a 5-year suspension. The house has been sold, and it's difficult to say at this point if they'll ever return to campus. With that said, here are my queries...

Do other GLOs have this same attitude? How many groups is Lloyd's backing? Have you found that alumni/ae involvement has helped in situations like this?

RE: the last point, I'm not sure if it helps in some instances because many of the LCA alums @ this august institution were just as crazed as the undergrads. Their primary reason for coming back to school for Homecoming was to get geezed and par-tay.

I know it's the end of the school year, and people are thinking about their summer vacations ("Oh, boy, gas here is only $2.13/gallon!"). Any thoughts on this are greatly appreciated.

Thanks--

Well, in reading some headlines about the lawsuits and charges against fraternities on many different campuses, you'd think the undergraduates would get the message:

Yes, you are insured, but only IF you follow the guidelines (in other words, the RULES) established by your national organization, campus, and chapter by-laws. If it can be proved you knew you were violating rules, and chose to do so anyways, then the insurance WILL NOT APPLY if you have any damages.

Insurance is NOT a "catch-all" and safety net. You can be in serious trouble if the insurance company decides not to underwrite a claim. If a claim is large enough (i.e. from a lawsuit)...it could potentially drag down an entire national organization, and I believe that came very close to happening to another national GLO just a couple of years ago.

I think it ties back into the same problems we're always seeing in chapters that suddenly find themselves on the chopping block: (1) the "it can't happen here" mentality, (2) the "it's OK, we're insured" fallacy, (3) the worst: "it's tradition".

Basically, it all ties back to a familiar phrase "Those who refuse to learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it."

Ignorance is NOT bliss. Ignorance is just a guaranteed path to obsolesence.

< Stepping off soap box now >

[shadokat]

I don't know about advisors being a liability, but advisors can be liable if they knew about an event and didn't bother to report it if it falls out of the guidelines of the organization.

Originally posted by Rudey
Why are advisors a liability? I never heard that before. Is it because they're "crazy as the undergraduates"? I guess I never saw anything in the news about advisors being labilities...

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
In addition, there are potential liability problems for advisors now -- even though the Fraternity has insurance for them as well.

Well guys, that's "there," not "they're." The advisors aren't the liability, the fact that they are being sued along with the chapter officers and national organizations is. So, they HAVE liability these days, not ARE a liability.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Well guys, that's "there," not "they're." The advisors aren't the liability, the fact that they are being sued along with the chapter officers and national organizations is. So, they HAVE liability these days, not ARE a liability.

Sorry. My mistake.

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Rudey
Sorry. My mistake.

-Rudey

No problem. We all make them.

I just wish I could figure out a better way of recruiting, keeping, training and protecting alumni volunteers.

[Tom Earp]

This is new to me! "We have Risk Insurance and everything will be fine".

That is one of the most inane things I have ever heard for a reason to act obnoxish and stupid!

I am with many Alums on this! We as a Chapter have mentoring sessions twice a year to work with the Active Chapter. We try to get as many Alums to participate in functions at least twice a year if not more.

One that I could not attend turned into a fiasco, aka Bitch session and help alienate the Chapter. One of the strongest die hard Alums walked out on it and went home.

Well, it turned out that after a year, the Bad Apples were weeded out as they did not pay their bills and grades kept them out of Active Status.

We as a Chapter became very close to being shut down and I even recommended it at a Meeting.

Basically, we have two mentoring meetings to cooencide with the Semesters and two House Corporation Meetings so that equals four meetings of Actives and Alums.

We as most Alums do not try to run the Chapter, but are there to help. When they do not accept that help until they find themselves in trouble then, there is a serious problem. No amount of Risk Insurance will help them.

As I stated, I suggested in a Major meeting, unless they got it together, then I remmended that the Chapter be closed down.

Maybe the light switch was pulled and the bulb came on!

Now, the Chapter is recovering and doing some great things with a lot less people, but paying the bills, not crying about we dont have a house and cannot rush. A new web site has been done by a Brother Active and everyone is seeing a turn about!

So, I guess my question is, whose fault is it?

Is it the Alums for not doing anything or the Actives who run the day to day?

I still feel, it is Both the Alums and Actives working together to make a strong and solid Chapter.

[bluefish81]

Originally posted by LXAAlum
Well, in reading some headlines about the lawsuits and charges against fraternities on many different campuses, you'd think the undergraduates would get the message:

Yes, you are insured, but only IF you follow the guidelines (in other words, the RULES) established by your national organization, campus, and chapter by-laws. If it can be proved you knew you were violating rules, and chose to do so anyways, then the insurance WILL NOT APPLY if you have any damages.

Insurance is NOT a "catch-all" and safety net. You can be in serious trouble if the insurance company decides not to underwrite a claim.

As as underwriter, truer words were never spoken and it never ceases to amaze me how many people with insurance don't understand that when you violate the terms of the policy (by doing something that isn't covered) you aren't covered.

[DeltAlum]

Thanks LXA and Bluefish,

I think there was a thread a few months ago where a company (might have been Lloyds) was going to refuse to pay a claim for just that reason. The chapter didn't follow the rules. I don't remember the outcome -- perhaps a compromise -- but some of the undergrads were probably outraged.

To borrow a line from a former TV detective show, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

Well, OK, the analogy is weak, but I've always liked the line.