Expansion - evening things out?

[33girl]

At the request of DeltaBetaBaby this is a topic that was touched on in another thread.

As we've seen on GC, there are large GLOs and small GLOs within each conference/council. Sometimes the difference between the biggest and the smallest is immense. It also seems to go on and on - i.e., the large get larger and the small get smaller. The question is, should NPC/IFC/NPHC do more to help the smaller groups (which are often the ones that joined later) "catch up" as far as chapters and resources - i.e. expansion caps for larger groups, support for the smaller groups, etc.

I want to hear what some others have to say before I put in my 2.5 cents.

[archangel689]

Not by forcing each others NIC chapters to vote for NIC colonies when they come up for membership in IFC, then placing sanctions if they refuse... thats for sure.

[FuzzieAlum]

Hm, schools choose GLOs for a reason. It's not just "X is supposed to be prestigious." The longer I'm around Greekdom, the more certain national organizations at the national level impress me with their disorganization. And it's not all a matter of resources (like A can pay more staff members than B), but a matter of policy and forward thinking or sticking their own heads up their collective butts.

And beyond "good or bad," GLOs have chosen to focus on certain areas for expansion. AXD is one org, for example, that has been excellent at expanding to small campuses with a small number of sororities. That is not all we do, but that is where a lot of our current expertise lies.

Just because we're all in NPC (or whatever council) doesn't mean we're all equal or that we can force equality. Are we all supposed to shop at K-Mart because it's unfair that bargain shoppers prefer Wal-Mart and Target? Sororities are a free-market system as well. It's up to the particular GLO to make themselves a desirable expansion option.

[Betarulz!]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum

It's up to the particular GLO to make themselves a desirable expansion option.

This sums it up so perfectly.

I can't even comprehend a system that would be fair if caps were to be put on expansion...I mean Beta is expanding at the request of Universities - much more so than out of interest groups requesting affiliation. I'm sure the opposite is true for other orgs.

I also think that if caps were put on, it would only be able to work for NPC, not NIC. (I'm not sure of the dynamics of NPHC, so I won't venture a guess.) NPC could work caps b/c of their position of passing more "legislative" type bills that have to be followed by chapters of member groups, and in NIC the bills passed amount to little more than reccomendations for undergraduate chapters.

In the end, I think that there is enough room for all, and that the smaller groups won't go out of existence unless they so choose to (unlike K-mart!).

[sugar and spice]

But I think that, for example, AXD didn't choose their particular market because they're good at it . . . they became good at it because that was the type of school that they were best fitted to expanding to, they ended up expanding to that type of school fairly often, and THEN decided to focus on it. The whole "niche" perpetuates itself.

Also, I think a more accurate comparison would be to the world of sports . . . let's say the Yankees are akin to Chi Omega, and so on down the line until you get to the Twins and the Tigers, which are Sigma Delta Tau and Theta Phi Alpha. The Yankees are always going to win the World Series because they have more money to spend. And Chi O is almost always going to win out over TPA at the more prestigious schools. That's why other professional sports have salary caps . . . to even out the playing field and make it so every team has a more or less equal chance at winning the championship.

The difference between the KMart/Walmart analogy and that of the NBA is that in basketball, all the teams are trying to help each other stay in business, whereas the stores are actively trying to put each other out of business. And I think the NPC is more like the NBA than it is like the world of commerce, because we do want all the other organizations to succeed (although generally we want them to succeed a little bit less than our own organization ).

Personally, I feel that unless SOMETHING is done, pretty soon the smaller NPC sororities will start to die off. Although I'm not sure if expansion caps are the best way to do it, or what WOULD be the best way to do it if they're not, it's pretty clear something does need to be done or we could start losing TPA, SDT, AEPhi and other smaller groups.

This is a really interesting subject.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I think that the top 10 or so groups are so busy battling each other for top dog that they put it before helping the others. For example, Phi Mu does not want to cap off its expansion, because we are so busy trying to catch up with ZTA, ChiO, and DZ.

On the other hand, I am not really sure what can be done to help the smaller groups. If we equate expansion to formal rush, maybe you would limit the amount of money to be spent on presenting and the number of representatives who could come.

Bottom line, though, without the resources to back it up, no expansion is going to be successful.

[enlightenment06]

As far as the NPHC goes, our organizations have closer historical ties than many NPC or NIC do, so at a particular school we may be more likely to help another NPHC org come on. Overall though, I don't think caps should be put on larger orgs to help smaller ones. If people like your org they'll join, if not they won't. People shouldn't be kept out of an org they want to be apart of just because they're large and be forced to somewhere else. Just my .06 cents

[shadokat]

As what many of you would call a smaller sorority, I think Delta Phi Epsilon has so much promise for the future with our forward thinking leadership and programming that our size will not dictate if we are here in 20, 50 or 100 years. The answer is of course will be, because we provide new and innovative programming and experiences for our collegiates. Even if we aren't at UT Austin anymore, we may get back one day! We're expanding often, closing less, and working our own chapters from within every day to make them fabulous.

I agree with sugar's baseball analogy somewhat, but I also think it's up to each organization to make themselves better. Chi Omega and D Phi E are not going to compete for the same chapters for a very long time, but we will on day (P.S., one of my best friends is a XO!). Don't take it personally. D Phi E offers things that XO does not, and vice versa, and we'll both have our places in the Panhellenic for many years to come. They say by the year 2015, there will only be 15-20 NPC sororities, and I agree, but I know one will be D Phi E!

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by shadokat
As what many of you would call a smaller sorority, I think Delta Phi Epsilon has so much promise for the future with our forward thinking leadership and programming that our size will not dictate if we are here in 20, 50 or 100 years. The answer is of course will be, because we provide new and innovative programming and experiences for our collegiates. Even if we aren't at UT Austin anymore, we may get back one day! We're expanding often, closing less, and working our own chapters from within every day to make them fabulous.

I agree with sugar's baseball analogy somewhat, but I also think it's up to each organization to make themselves better. Chi Omega and D Phi E are not going to compete for the same chapters for a very long time, but we will on day (P.S., one of my best friends is a XO!). Don't take it personally. D Phi E offers things that XO does not, and vice versa, and we'll both have our places in the Panhellenic for many years to come. They say by the year 2015, there will only be 15-20 NPC sororities, and I agree, but I know one will be D Phi E!

Do you think that 6 to 11 NPC sororities will fold? Why? Numbers, money, lawsuits? Or will they merge as they had in the past?

These questions are open to anyone, not just shadokat.

[FuzzieAlum]

I can think of several reasons GLOs might fold, although that doesn't necessarily mean they will. Expanding costs money - over-expansion plus a risk management lawsuit could put a chapter over the edge. Not expanding is a problem too, since chapters do fold from time to time - and it takes more effort (and money) to keep a struggling chapter open. (If nationals is monitoring you and sending you lots of consultants for whatever reason, the bills can add up fast.) Without expansion, you'll shrink.

Although mergers have historically been more common than straight-out GLO closings, I think that time may be at an end. First of all, groups need to be fairly compatible in terms of beliefs and traditions, so that limits their options. Secondly, GLOs had fewer chapters back in the heyday of mergers - many of the ones who were absorbed had maybe 20 chapters. Does a GLO want to give itself the burden of 50 or 100 new chapters that come with no money - and alums who probably aren't supportive? They might as well be signing their own death warrant.

On another note - as Shadokat said, size isn't the most important thing. I do think being mega-huge is perhaps some protection; but financial stability and good leadership are more important than anything else, and plenty of the "smaller" GLOs have that.

[amycat412]

And what would happen when/if an NPC group dies out?

Its different now than back in the beginning, even the smaller GLOs have a lot of members/alumna compared to early days of NPC.

For sake of argument, I'll use XO. If XO folds, does that mean all the alumna groups do too? Clearly there'd be no national resources, but should that stop members from keeping it alive on a more grassroots level?

[FuzzieAlum]

I don't know ... Iota Alpha Pi closed in, I think, the 1970s, so they should have plenty of alums alive ... but has anyone heard from them in recent years?

[DGMarie]

I found this when searching for Iota Alpha Pi. Kind of makes you sad to think groups were there for years and years and then folded....seems like the 1950's were pretty bad years....

Closed U of Toronto Member Groups
Kappa Alpha Theta - Sigma Chapter (1887-1941)
Delta Gamma - Alpha Gamma Chapter (1913-1976)
Delta Phi Epsilon - Zeta Chapter (1924-1958)
Iota Alpha Pi - Kappa Chapter (1926-1956)
Alpha Epsilon Phi - Alpha Alpha Chapter (1927-1955)
Alpha Delta Pi - Beta Zeta Chapter (1929-1943)
Alpha Chi Omega - Beta Iota Chapter (1930-1953)

[33girl]

Originally posted by amycat412
And what would happen when/if an NPC group dies out?

Its different now than back in the beginning, even the smaller GLOs have a lot of members/alumna compared to early days of NPC.

For sake of argument, I'll use XO. If XO folds, does that mean all the alumna groups do too? Clearly there'd be no national resources, but should that stop members from keeping it alive on a more grassroots level?

It would probably be like if McDonald's ceased to have a national base. There would still be locations that would continue doing everything the McDonald's way. There would probably be locations that over time would change this or that. There might be locations that said forget the whole thing, and close the building.

I don't know how to say what I mean - if all the chapters continue to operate in the way Chi Omega HQ would dictate, even if there IS no Chi Omega HQ or governing board, you would still have a national sorority. Does that make sense?

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I guess it is similar to a chapter of a sorority closing. They are no longer chartered ABC, but they met and were bonded in the sisterhood of ABC. The sisters, who became alumnae with the revocation of their charter, want to continue their friendships and community service so they form a volunteer group. They continue to meet weekly, but with a different name. Their meetings might still operate as they did when they were active sisters. Eventually, the sisters/alumnae graduate and the volunteeer group takes on a life and identity of its own, or it dies out. I guess that this is how it would happen on campuses nationwide or internationally.

I sincerely hope that the prediction that only 15 to 20 NPC sororities will exist by 2015 is incorrect. I would not be surprised however if some sororities do close completely. Haven't three to five NPCs closed already since World War II? I know that some merged with other existing NPCs. Perhaps that it what the future holds in store. All it takes for the complete termination of any NPC sorority is a risk management tragedy and enormous lawsuits which could result in a bankruptcy.