The ACLU--good or bad?

[ladygreek]

I am interested in knowing what folx (read Black folx) think about the American Civil Liberties Union.

I will say up front that I work for the ACLU of Minnesota (www.aclu-mn.org) and as the external relations director I am constantly in the MN executive director's you-know-what about how we reach out to the African American community and the difference (I see) between civil liberties issues and civil rights issues.

So I would like to know what you all think about the ACLU in your state or the ACLU (www.aclu.org) in general.

[reddawn18]

Not to knock you but in NY it feels like they are the invisible man. This is my personal feeling, that they are not there for anyone. It use to be great back in the day. But now, they are not nothing to write home about. One thing about it is that they are in contact with the community at all. It feels like its the new school for politicans not the common man.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by reddawn18
Not to knock you but in NY it feels like they are the invisible man. This is my personal feeling, that they are not there for anyone. It use to be great back in the day. But now, they are not nothing to write home about. One thing about it is that they are in contact with the community at all. It feels like its the new school for politicans not the common man.

You're not knocking me. Like I said, what you mentioned is an issue here that I am fighting and I want to know if it is the same elsewhere. One thing though. NY has the NYCLU, the state affiliate and it has the HQ of the national ACLU (which handles mostly federal cases.) So are you talking about one of them or both?

[reddawn18]

I was not aware of the NYCLU. I was only aware of the ACLU. So that can see there is no presence that I know of.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by reddawn18
I was not aware of the NYCLU. I was only aware of the ACLU. So that can see there is no presence that I know of.

I'm not surprised. www.nyclu.org

Each state has an affiliate. We used to be the MnCLU--Minnesota Civil Liberties Union. But HQ asked us all to change our names to the ACLU of XX. Most have, but some haven't. I suspect the NYCLU feels it would be too confusing.

State affiliates in turn can have city or county chapters. NYCLU has several chapters throughout New York.

[reddawn18]

I see. The only thing I see from the ACLU are the donation letters aka begging letters my grandpa gets.

[ladylike]

To be honest I have not taken note of the ACLU in my city (Columbus, OH). I have gravitated towards organizations whose main focus is my community (read: Black people). I've been so occupied with the apathy and infighting of some of "our" organizations (i.e. NAACP) and how they represent us that I haven't taken the time to examine how other organizations operate. I have come across a couple of articles regarding the ACLU and some of the battles they've engage in but they are all pertaining to the rights of prisoners (those convicted and sent to jail).

Ladygreek----do you feel like "our" issues aren't being addressed because our numbers aren't there when it comes to membership?
I can probably count on one hand the Black people I know that contribute to the ACLU.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by ladylike
Ladygreek----do you feel like "our" issues aren't being addressed because our numbers aren't there when it comes to membership?
I can probably count on one hand the Black people I know that contribute to the ACLU.

Since increasing membership is part of my job, I am looking at it as Blacks are not members because the org. does not serve them. You don't have to be a member for the ACLU to take your case. But, here in MN, I think we talk a good game but that is all. I constantly challege my ED on why we don't consider vendors of color when buying supplies, etc. We don't we partner with the NAACP or Urban League on issues forums. And why are we so pro-union, when historically unions have discriminated against people of color. (If we hold a food event, we can only use union venues and caterers. That in effect eliminates all the small family-runned caterers of color in the Twin Cities.)

So basically, I am trying to build a case for our staff and about increasing our out-reach to communities of color and especially the Black community, and why some of our current policies are preventing that.

[reddawn18]

Originally posted by ladygreek
Since increasing membership is part of my job, I am looking at it as Blacks are not members because the org. does not serve them. You don't have to be a member for the ACLU to take your case. But, here in MN, I think we talk a good game but that is all. I constantly challege my ED on why we don't consider vendors of color when buying supplies, etc. We don't we partner with the NAACP or Urban League on issues forums. And why are we so pro-union, when historically unions have discriminated against people of color. (If we hold a food event, we can only use union venues and caterers. That in effect eliminates all the small family-runned caterers of color in the Twin Cities.)

So basically, I am trying to build a case for our staff and about increasing our out-reach to communities of color and especially the Black community, and why some of our current policies are preventing that.

That sound more a beaucratic problem. THere is alot of things that you are saying is true. To get our attention is to get our face up there.

It was the same with my college campus, there was no faces of color in the brouchure. When I attended we made sure our faces were out there. That has served us as an double edged sword, now that we are five years out of college the current students are getting burned by our inroads of getting on the surface of the campus.

I think showing that we are on the forfront, by getting members or doing business with different multicultural businesses would help. But it looks like you are hitting a glass ceiling.

[Love_Spell_6]

I meant to respond to this thread a minute ago..but here's what I think of the Anti CHRISTIAN Liberties Union..well I'll let the sources speak for themselves...The first case mentioned is rather old..but typical of the junk ACLU does...

In October 1997, Jeffrey Curley, a 10-year-old Cambridge, Mass., boy, was playing outside his home when he was lured into a car by Charles Jaynes and Salvatore Sicari. The two men, seeking a child to rape, attacked Jeffrey, who fought back. Then they choked him to death with a gasoline-soaked rag, molested his dead body in Jayne's apartment in Manchester, N.H., stuffed the body into a cement-filled Rubbermaid container and threw the poor child's remains, like a sack of garbage, into the Great Works River in Maine. ... it was revealed that Jaynes and Sicari were members of the abominable North American Man-Boy Love Association. This repugnant group advocates and even instructs its members on the sexual rape of little boys by grown men. According to the American Civil Liberties Union, NAMBLA is simply exercising its freedom of speech in publishing this bizarre, outlandish material. In fact, the ACLU is defending NAMBLA against a $200 million lawsuit filed by the parents of Jeffrey Curley.
article here:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1103684/posts

More on the same case:
The ACLU also will act as a surrogate for NAMBLA, allowing its members to defend themselves in court while remaining anonymous. According to the Globe, NAMBLA officials in the past have said their main goal is the abolition of age-of-consent laws that classify sex with children as rape.
http://www.operationlookout.org/look...end_nambla.htm

This next case is interesting because the ACLU supports the rights of Witches praying, but don't want the Ten Commandments displayed:
Witches, or practitioners of the Wicca religion, can pray at a county's board meeting, a federal judge ruled.
Officials in Chesterfield County, Virginia, discriminated against Cyndi Simpson, a Wiccan, when they barred her from being on a list of clergy who can open the board of supervisors meetings with prayer, said U.S. District Court Judge Dennis W. Dohnal, according to the Chesterfield Progress-Index newspaper.
The lawsuit was filed by the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia and Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
Wicca is regarded as a natural religion, "grounded in the earth." Followers of its many different forms generally believe all living things, as well as stars, planets, and rocks, have a spirit.

More here: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/NEWS/AR...TICLE_ID=35628

The Anti Christian Civil Liberties union also went after a cross on a seal..but said nothing about the Roman goddess that's also featured on the seal...

"Under clearly established law, the seal is unconstitutional," the letter said, warning that refusal to remove the cross in a "reasonable time-frame" would cause the ACLU to seek a court order. The cross was incorporated into the seal to represent the area's settlement by Spanish missionaries who, in the 1700s, founded two of California's famous missions in what is now Los Angeles County

The panel is one of six around the seal's main figure, Pomona, a Roman goddess of fruits and trees representing the region's agriculture. Pomona is also the name of one of the county's earliest cities.

article here: http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/sto...10344176c.html


These are just a few of the atrocities perpetrated by the ACLU under the guise of equal freedoms for everyone...
but of course this is just my opinion

[WenD08]

i believe the ACLU backed a local Klan group in their push to have a cross on a city landmark at Chrismas here in Cincy. i wish the ACLU would lose and the Klan would be kept out of the city. however, i will say that i appreciate the organization even though i don't agree w/them on every issue. i particularly appreciate their work on upholding the separation of church and state.

[Love_Spell_6]

The ACLU for the most part hates and goes after Christianity...so I'd say they are against seperation of Christianity and state..not necessarily church and state..

MANDATING THE KORAN

The ACLU finally finds a religion it can tolerate. Surprise--it's Islam.

When a state university requires students to immerse themselves in the study of a particular religion, it can expect trouble. That's exactly what the University of North Carolina got for its summer reading requirement that all incoming freshmen read portions of the Koran and commentary by a religious scholar. The school now faces a lawsuit from a group of students and alumni, charging violations of the First Amendment.
...The American Civil Liberties Union, normally busy saving the nation's schools from the smallest whiff of religious influence, has leapt to university's defense. Finally, it seems, the ACLU has found a religion it can tolerate.

http://www.blessedcause.org/Antichri...nd%20islam.htm

[ladygreek]

From the article you cited. Please read the bolded. "As an ACLU lawyer explained on National Public Radio, requiring the readings from the Koran isn't a problem because its aim is educational, and won't be, as long as it is presented as belief and not fact"

That is the crucial point. And it would apply to all such renderings.

I understand your chagrin, but I and all of my co-workers in MN are Christian. And the tension for civil liberterians is that we must uphold the Bill of Rights for everyone--not just the folx we agree with. So many times we have to defend causes and groups that we do not personally agree with. Thats is why the ACLU will defend the KKKs right to assemble to protect the rights of any and all groups to assemble.

The ACLU generally does not take a case unless someone has come forward with a complaint. What I mean by that is we don't sit around saying "hmmmm, let's stir trouble up about the Ten Commandments being displayed in front of a City Hall." Offended citizens (and in our case were also Christians) came forth because they understood the First Amendment and the Establishment Clause that separates church and state.

Historically, this Amendment is grounded in the persecution of various religious orders by governments that did not share the same beliefs. Christians were persecuted, too.

But my initial question was specifically about Black folx in general. How can we/I get more of us to understand the importance of the ACLU,e.g. what do Black folx think about our involvement in trying to overturn the Patriot Act?. And how can we/I get the ACLU to better understand the needs of our community? That is the input I am seeking.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by ladygreek
From the article you cited. Please read the bolded. "As an ACLU lawyer explained on National Public Radio, requiring the readings from the Koran isn't a problem because its aim is educational, and won't be, as long as it is presented as belief and not fact"

That is the crucial point. And it would apply to all such renderings.

I understand your chagrin, but I and all of my co-workers in MN are Christian. And the tension for civil liberterians is that we must uphold the Bill of Rights for everyone--not just the folx we agree with. So many times we have to defend causes and groups that we do not personally agree with. Thats is why the ACLU will defend the KKKs right to assemble to protect the rights of any and all groups to assemble.

The ACLU generally does not take a case unless someone has come forward with a complaint. What I mean by that is we don't sit around saying "hmmmm, let's stir trouble up about the Ten Commandments being displayed in front of a City Hall." Offended citizens (and in our case were also Christians) came forth because they understood the First Amendment and the Establishment Clause that separates church and state.

Historically, this Amendment is grounded in the persecution of various religious orders by governments that did not share the same beliefs. Christians were persecuted, too.

But my initial question was specifically about Black folx in general. How can we/I get more of us to understand the importance of the ACLU,e.g. what do Black folx think about our involvement in trying to overturn the Patriot Act?. And how can we/I get the ACLU to better understand the needs of our community? That is the input I am seeking.

I hear ya Ladygreek...and I guess I just disagree..I don't believe that many members of the ACLU's motives are as genuine as yours and your co-workers..and I certainly don't agree that certain cases are not "sought" for some individuals seeking to push their own agendas.

So as far as your initial question..I guess I would say that I don't think the ACLU could represent my views..because before I'm a black woman..I'm a Christian... and even then...I think the ACLU's agenda that has more to do with promoting secularism than anything else..and I do support the patriot act..so I wouldn't support any efforts of the ACLU in that area..

Gurl you know I'm a little radical in my beliefs LOL (as compared to GC)

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
Gurl you know I'm a little radical in my beliefs LOL (as compared to GC)

Yep, but you keep me on my toes- LOL. And you are right there are some fringe ACLUers just like there are some fringe Christians, fringe Republicans, fringe Democrats, etc.

So all I can say is that the ACLU's issues are not about religion per se, but about govenrment interference with and violation of all of our civil liberties. Unfortunately, some of our cases (and maybe PR) don't convey that well enough.