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Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.

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  #1  
Old 07-12-2003, 11:17 PM
Educated Educated is offline
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Hazing Redefined

I recommend the definition of hazing be redefined to demand the VICTIM of the hazing acknowledge they were hazed. Just like a battery.. if the victim says I wasn't battered, THERE IS NO CRIME.

With current hazing guidelines, the vicitm could say, I WASN'T HAZED and Universities can still charge you with hazing. So stupid.



***And don't mention the kids that get killed not being able to say it was hazing.
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  #2  
Old 07-12-2003, 11:23 PM
AlphaFrog AlphaFrog is offline
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Ok-if you really wanted to be in a Fraterinty or Soroity and they hazed badly...are you going to open your mouth and say you were hazed, even if you were hazed within an inch or your life? Most likely not....it just wouldn't work for many, many reasons.
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  #3  
Old 07-13-2003, 12:00 AM
kddani kddani is offline
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You gotta think that one through a little bit more......

First, the very definitions of hazing that are currently in the laws and that have ever been in the laws have nothing to do with whether or not the hazee gave permission for whatever to be done to them. Permission is not an element (at least not in any laws that I have seen). Also, when you add in an element of "permission", think about it- what does that really help? All they have to do is be heavily pressured (kids of that age are highly impressionable to begin with) to say that they gave permission when they really didn't. People that do the hazing would have no problem putting on the mafia-type pressure to the hazee to say that they permitted the hazing. It would also really create a slippery-slope effect- permission for scavenger hunts (which personally i'm fine with, even though most national groups don't agree) to permission to fat circling and paddling.

Are we going to have a witness protection program for victims of hazing??? Young men and women afraid to come forward because they may be victims again. If they have to openly admit to whatever source this is that you say they should have to admit to (which is a huge problem by itself- there are so many jurisdictions involved- the campus, the group itself, the town, the state, and the country), it's going to be a bigger matter of public record and it could lead to future humiliation.

Battery is not a good choice to compare this with- depending on circumstances, the particular laws, etc., what you said is not necessarily true. The definition of battery in criminal law is the application of force to another, resulting in harmful or offensive contact, and in torts (i.e. civil liability) it's an intentional and offensive touchign of another without lawful justification. There's some lines that you really can't cross. So things like boxing are okay, but when it gets to the point of Fight Club, you have some issues. It's really hard to convince the DA's office that you totally gave permission to someone to beat you within an inch of your life. Hence why assisting suicide is a crime. Even if the "patient" signs all kinds of stuff saying that they okayed it, etc., Dr. Kevorkian still can't help them kill themselves.

In any event, legally, your "recommendation" opens a whole can of worms and would probably create a lot of problems. "Demand" probably isn't the best word choice.

Also, until a federal anti-hazing law is created, every jurisdiction is going to be different.

You'll find a lot of us here have strong feelings about hazing, because those of us in national groups all have very strong hazing policies that are strictly enforced (as i'm sure some locals do as well- just not familiar with them as much!). I had strong feelings here about your post because of my familiarity with the legal system and because of some prior discussions we've had on here about hazing.

I do encourage you to learn more about the subject. You haven't volunteered much information as to your familiarity with greek life and hazing outside of just having friends that are in DOC so I really don't know your familiarity. You may also want to see our hazing discussion in relation to the first season of Fraternity Life when we watched that fraternity blatantly haze on national television. There was some great discussions about hazing laws and regulations.

Hopefully this post made sense, it's a little late for me to be thinking with my legal cap on. I do that all week, weekends I try to turn off that part of my brain
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Old 07-13-2003, 12:03 AM
texas*princess texas*princess is offline
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excellent post kddani!
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  #5  
Old 07-13-2003, 12:50 AM
KillarneyRose KillarneyRose is offline
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Excellent post, Dani! Looks like YOU are the EDUCATED one as in Pitt Law '05
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  #6  
Old 07-13-2003, 12:52 AM
KillarneyRose KillarneyRose is offline
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Re: Hazing Redefined

Quote:
Originally posted by Educated
***And don't mention the kids that get killed not being able to say it was hazing.
Well, actually that would be murder .
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  #7  
Old 07-13-2003, 10:47 AM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Guys, this clown and maxee are spaming the boards and getting generally obnoxious!

Please Ignor!!
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  #8  
Old 07-15-2003, 04:04 PM
madmax madmax is offline
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Re: Hazing Redefined

Quote:
Originally posted by Educated
I recommend the definition of hazing be redefined to demand the VICTIM of the hazing acknowledge they were hazed. Just like a battery.. if the victim says I wasn't battered, THERE IS NO CRIME.

With current hazing guidelines, the vicitm could say, I WASN'T HAZED and Universities can still charge you with hazing. So stupid.



***And don't mention the kids that get killed not being able to say it was hazing.

Even if the laws were changed, it's irrelevant. A university's code of conduct and the laws are two different issues. Just look at typical university "no keg" policy or a policy that prohibits alcohol in greek houses. It's not against the law for someone over the age of 21 to purchase, consume or serve alcohol to guests who are also of legal age, but universities can still prohibit member organizations from doing so.
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  #9  
Old 07-15-2003, 11:37 PM
Tom Earp Tom Earp is offline
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Question

madmax, not to get silly with you, but did you read the prvious post I made?

It is a tag team effort by these two to play the V card!

Well until they are found out!
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