NPC Rush - Can something be done to reduce/eradicate the number of "bidless" rushees?

[CutiePie2000]

I was thinking this morning of a post in another thread which said:
I go to Indiana University, which has the largest and most competitive rush in the country. There are 19 houses here. Every year about 2000 girls go through rush, while about 800 get bids. Therefore, at IU you are actually a minority if you recieve a bid. Not all Greek systems place nearly all of their rushees.

This kind of bothers me. To me, it seems to be a real travesty that in the above situation, less than HALF of the rushees receive bids (assuming that there were no rushee dropouts, which of course there likely were).

Some people would probably say that if the sororities accomodated every single rushee that wanted them that the chapters would get to be "too big". I'm not sure if "too big" is really a good or valid excuse...wouldn't it be better for the strength of the Greek system to accomodate as many girls as possible who have a sincere interest to belong to a NPC organization? It doesn't seem fair that sororities have 'ceilings' and that once they reach the ceiling, that's it, no more members for that year.

I think for girls who want to join, they should be allowed to join. It saddens me and it just seems very unfair that ceilings are set at these "bigger schools where rush is competitive" and end up denying this experience to women who want to join and go Greek.

It also sounds like U of Indiana does not have much COR going on after Formal Recruitment, as the groups all fill up to capacity right away, and there are so many rushees for so few spots? Why can't the capacity be 'unlimited'?

Please educate me! I'm looking forward to the discussions!

[carnation]

Cutie Pie, I wish I had an answer to this. I know the answer isn't in taking everyone because you do get some rushees who are really slutty or known to be mean, etc., you get my drift...you can't blame the sororities for not wanting them. At the college where I teach, the locals' policy of accepting all rushees has had some real repercussions.

However, the post about IU has bothered me too since the day it was posted. I want to see as many girls get bids as possible and it breaks my heart to see rushees upset. I'll never forget my first day on the job as assistant advisor at a big campus and I had to sit in the room where all the girls got their returns--it was horrible. Pnguintrax has spoken of a new procedure in which quota can be based on the number of girls who go to prefs and that would be a big help.

Then again, one thing that rushees do to themselves is refuse to consider more than 1 or 2 sororities. I don't know how you go about changing entrenched opinions. The answer is not, however, forcing girls to go to parties that they don't want to attend and then penalizing them for not accepting bids they never wanted to accept in the first place by not letting them pledge for a year.

If anyone has any great solutions to this, I'd like to hear them!

[CutiePie2000]

carnation, thanks for a great post. I can certainly understand that sororities (or any group/club/organization) not wanting an individual in the membership who might cause problems down the road.

(As an aside, I think girls who are...err...'sexually liberal', probably are due to poor self-esteem, lack of self worth, a history of abuse, or confusing sex with love...but I digress. Ditto for girls who are mean/nasty - I guess I try to believe that people by nature are 'good', and if they're nasty, they are the ones probably most in need of someone to be nice to them and make them feel like they belong.)

I am very interested in discussing this topic of quality rushees who wind up "bidless". Also, you're right in your statement "forcing girls to go to parties that they don't want to attend and then penalizing them for not accepting bids they never wanted to accept in the first place by not letting them pledge for a year." is not the answer, either. As you know, this happened to me, and it was a devastating experience, even 10 years later. So I try to learn as much as I can about the Panhellenic workings, so that rushees are well informed about how to ensure that they get a good, positive outcome in Rush. I know that rushees won't always get their #1 pick, but for a rushee to get one they never ever wanted, or nothing at all, I think is a terrible shame.

Also, I don't know how you go about changing entrenched opinions, you're right, some sororities have the reputation of being more or less 'desirable' than their on-campus counterparts....it is tough indeed.

[33girl]

"For those of you doing the arithmetic at home...never mind the mathematics!" - Dan Rather on election night

Let's look at IU, if all the rushees would get bids.

2000 rushees divided by 19 sororities = 105 pledges each. Assuming they all stay active for 4 years and this rate keeps up, there could be houses with over 400 girls!! I think 200 is pushing it, I don't know how you could operate a house let alone have sisterhood with 400 girls.

The solution to me is more, not bigger, sororities. There are 19 NPC houses at IU, which means there are 7 NPC houses not there. And that's the problem. As I stated before, my org had a chapter at IU which closed (we are one of the smaller ones nationally) and I asked our expansion VP if they had ever thought of recolonizing it, especially with rush figures like the ones there. She said they weren't - it was too much to try to compete without a huge house, etc. I asked about the possibility of several smaller sororities going in and colonizing at the same time, and she didn't think much of that idea either.

Well, here are my thoughts on that: I joined my sorority for the women in it, not the house. That to me makes the rushees sound shallow, like all they care about is the house. Why not try leasing blocks of apartments for a while? I know there is some sort of NPC rule that if a new chapter comes on campus, it should have resources equal to compete with the other chapters. But what is the good of a rule like that if it keeps women from participating in Greek life? I think it should be up to the STUDENTS to decide what kind of resources are important to them. If a group of girls decides that being unhoused is no big deal and the sorority thrives, who gives a @#%*?

I think it is totally crucial at this juncture for the nationally smaller orgs to get into the larger schools with thriving and (for lack of a better phrase) "nationally known" Greek systems. The more they stay at smaller schools and keep out of the larger ones, the less they will be known, the smaller they will get, etc. etc....as my mom used to say, it's like wiping your butt with a hoop.

Now I'm NOT saying small schools are bad, but I think you need to have chapters at all different kinds of schools and not get stuck in a box of thinking "school type A is for us and school type B is not for us." I think that's why ZTA, DZ & Chi O are so big - they have chapters at all different kinds of schools.

Whew, long post, and a tangent or 2. But that's my solution to the "unbidded" problem.

[coffeemug]

I like your idea about several small groups going together...the fact is large housed greek systems are tough for any group to colonize on this day and age!! The million dollar housing commitment alone is tough for any organization to handle.

I do also believe that the smaller groups may get smaller in the next few years.

[ZTAngel]

At UCF, we get our quota from how many girls attended all the pref parties. On the first day of rush, we were freaking out bc with the number of girls rushing, it looked like our quota would be 120! But, as the week goes on, girls tend to drop out of recruitment. We did not know what our quota would be until prefs! I think this system works better bc more girls are placed. In fact, just about every girl gets placed. If one of the girls is not bidded by one of their top three choices, they are asked if they're willing to accept a bid from a sorority who did not meet quota (I guess this is snap bidding). This recruitment, we got 71 wonderful new members!

[Harmony]

Hey everyone!

I go to Penn State. We have 21 NPC sororities here. I think about 700 girls rushed this year (?) and the deal basically is, if you go to all your parties and rank all the houses you can, you're gaurenteed a bid somewhere. As rush goes on, girls drop out or end up suiciding (I think only 13 didn't get bids) and everyone else got a bid somewhere. A comp matches up all of the houses' lists and the rushee's lists and makes up pretty even sized pledge classes for each sorority. Some girl aren't happy and drop after they've gotten their bids, but for the most part, most of the sororities have around the same # of women (around 70-90 or so).

[CutiePie2000]

Originally posted by ZTAngel:
If one of the girls is not bidded by one of their top three choices, they are asked if they're willing to accept a bid from a sorority who did not meet quota (I guess this is snap bidding).

I understnad that the girls who put down their 3 choices and still don't get a bid, are eligible for 'snap bidding'. When sororities who don't make quota offer snap bids, do they know who they're snap bidding? Are they provided with list of girls who are "eligible" for snap bids?

Or do the " not-yet quota'ed" sororities just provide snap bids (blind) to Panhel and Panhel does the rest and hopes for the best?

Also, is it possible for an unbidded rushee to get a snap bid from more than one sorority? And if a rushee turns down a snap bid from groups who weren't on the rushee's signed bid card, is it also a case of No Going Greek for a year?

Sorry..I know...questions! questions!! Please let me know...

[xp2k]

Hi all,

I actually attend Indiana University and the rumors about the competitive rush are very much true. A little less then half of the girls who go through rush actually recive bids. Part of the problem is space. I'd say about 17 out of the 19 sororities reach their quota. The sororities houses are packed with cold dorms and there's probably no space for any more girls. Some of the sororities here take about 50 girls in the spring and house sizes are about 120 on average. Some of the sororities could add additions on to their house to provide more spaces, but as mentioned above, adding too many girls will weaken the sisterhood.

As for expansion, I wouldnt say that it's difficult. AOPi, which had been absent from the university since 1995, recolonized last year and were able to get 150 girls...without a house. Plus the quality of girls that they were able to get without having a reputation was quite high. They already have a fairly good rep on campus. AOPi is buidling a new house that will hold 120 girls. If you're a sorority and you want to expand to IU, I say go for it. There arent very many abandoned fraternity houses on campus or fraternity row to occupy, that could be your only trouble. I wouldnt necessarily worry about numbers though. You'll get the number of girls you need and probably the quality too. Too many GREAT girls get left out of a house because there either isnt enough space or they dont get the bid they wanted.

If you want to expand to our campus, e-mail me and I'll see if I can get you the contact info for the right people.

Fraternities always welcome more sororities =)

just my two cents.

XP2K

[SoCalGirl]

CutiePie--The sororities definitely know who they're snapping. They're given a list of all the girls who didn't get bids. At most schools a sorority can also snap a girl who dropped out before Pref. (Doesn't matter if she choosed to drop or if she was cut from every house.)

At my school the chapters recieve their pledge class list first thing in the morning. Then from 11am-1pm all the chapters who didn't meet quota are allowed to call girls and offer bids. From 1pm-2pm chapters that met quota but not total are allowed to call. Before 11am the girls Rho Chis are supposed to call them and let them know what happened. Unfortunately the year that I called a girl to give her a bid, her Rho Chi hadn't reached her yer! That was a little akward.

The snapped pledges then come to bid day just like everybody else does and the rest of the pledge class is pretty much clueless unless they choose to talk about it.

[CutiePie2000]

[b]SoCalGirl[b/], I emailed you at your GreekChat address. I hope to hear from you.

Thank you for your post. I have learned so much from this website, it is incredible. So, thank you to everyone! I'm not even in a sorority (yet), but I'm petitioning to be an alumna initiate. I will be sure to let you know how it turns out.

Only a few more questions:
1. Is it permissible for an "unbidded" rushee to get a snap bid from more than one sorority?
2. If a rushee turns down a snap bid from groups who weren't on the rushee's signed bid card, is it also a case of No Going Greek for a year?
3. What if a rushee attends her Preference Parties and then drops out of Rush (or she "refuses" to sign a Bid Card?) What happens then? Is she eligible for snap bidding too?

[PenguinTrax]

There are at least two different threads on this board regarding snap bidding and how it works. If you use the search feature, you will find them. There may also be a related thread on the Greek Life forum.

Barbara
Rush forum moderator-ess

[ZTAngel]

Originally posted by CutiePie2000:
Only a few more questions:
1. Is it permissible for an "unbidded" rushee to get a snap bid from more than one sorority?
2. If a rushee turns down a snap bid from groups who weren't on the rushee's signed bid card, is it also a case of No Going Greek for a year?
3. What if a rushee attends her Preference Parties and then drops out of Rush (or she "refuses" to sign a Bid Card?) What happens then? Is she eligible for snap bidding too?

[/B]

Hey CutiePie2000. Don't worry about asking too many questions. After all, that's what these message boards are for. Ok, I'm going to try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge.
1. I don't think that has happened before. At least not to my knowledge. Does anyone know what the answer to this one is?
2. I am 99% sure that it doesn't apply to "No Going Greek" for a year. A friend of mine did not get any of her top three choices and was asked to pick up a snap bid by another sorority. She turned it down. That Fall, a sorority on our campus was starting over again and did informal recruitment. My friend ended up joining that sorority.
3. I think that in order to be considered for a snap bid that you had to fill out your bid card and not get any of your choices.

[SoCalGirl]

Can you get more than one snap bid? Yup! As long as you haven't said yes to a house, you can consider as many bids as you like.

If you didn't bid match, and turn down your snap bids; I'm pretty sure that you're eligible to do informal rush.

If a rushee hasn't signed a bid/pref card, she is still eligible for informal rush. The only exception I've ever heard on this is at Longwood College. We learned that back in the fall from a rushee.

[coffeemug]

Originally posted by CutiePie2000:
Only a few more questions:
1. Is it permissible for an "unbidded" rushee to get a snap bid from more than one sorority?
2. If a rushee turns down a snap bid from groups who weren't on the rushee's signed bid card, is it also a case of No Going Greek for a year?
3. What if a rushee attends her Preference Parties and then drops out of Rush (or she "refuses" to sign a Bid Card?) What happens then? Is she eligible for snap bidding too?

1 - Yes. The purpose of snap bidding is to allow those chapters that did not match quota to obtain it on bid day. In fact no one should know if a women received a snap bid except the Advisor and maybe the rush chair. Typically she would get her snap bid before all the women go to the chapter house to receive bids and she would just go with the other new members...no different.

2. No --snap bidding does not hold the same rules as Formal Recruitment Preference card signing.

3. Yes --theoretically any women who participates in any part of formal recruitment --even just open house--and then drops out in eligible for a snap bid.