Something to Consider

aurora_borealis · #1 05-20-2003, 03:31 PM

The other night I headed out to dinner with my eldest sister, and my two friends. We were seated in a booth at a restaurant enjoying our meal, and couldn't help but hear the conversation of the two young ladies behind us. One was freshly home from college, and was telling her friend all about her sorority. She is not a member of an NPC sorority, nor an NPHC sorority, but of a specific interest/multicultural sorority. She never said the name, but by discussing the flower, the colors and other details, I knew exactly which group it was as a friend of a friend is a member, and they are VERY prominent in California.

The thing is, my friends are not Greek and have no interest in it. One had a notion for a week to do it, the other may AI, and my sister will do AI. My friends have no first hand knowledge of sororities, but just by hearing this conversation my friends were disgusted, and they realized this girl was hazed. One said "I would never join a group that would treat me this way". I realize the whole world of sororities does not revolve around the NPC, but universities and the government have laws and regulations against hazing. Not only did she go into DETAIL about her process, which I think is not appropriate for public discussion, but she described acts that are hazing.

My point is this: You never really know who can hear what you say in public. Your private process shouldn't be public discussion. I lost respect for that group after I heard how they treat new members. What if my sister had already done AI and was advising a chapter and heard this? Or I had been meeting with alums for recs? They may be the sort of people that would want to report something like that. I am sure that if someone from Alaska reported something, they'd figure out which sister it was with a quickness. Plus the place was full of post promhighschoolers, and it is one of the only late night eateries that isn't dirt bag. The last thing Greek Life needs is to have more misinformation out there.

33girl · #2 05-20-2003, 03:42 PM

to play devil's advocate, if she was describing what went on to her friend with such enthusiasm, I doubt if she feels that she was hazed. if she felt negative and that she was hazed, she probably would have said so.

AOX81 · #3 05-20-2003, 03:43 PM

I know exactly what you are talking about...

When I used to work and go to school a lot I would often take short naps in my car in between classes. One day I woke up because I heard two girls in the car next to me laughing and being really loud. They were talking about things that they had made their pledges do the night before and they were making fun of their own pledges! I must have looked like a deer in headlights.
All I could think of is "what should I do?" So I sat up in my car and looked over at them with a very shocked looked on my face. I heard one girls say "oh shit." I walked up to the University Center and pulled their President aside and told her what I heard only moments early. She had the "oh shit" look on her face.

I didn't have to tell on them because two of their pledges depledged and later on joined my sorority. Both girls wrote letters to that national organization stating what their active members were doing to their pledges.

Remember...eyes and ears are EVERYWHERE!!

XOMichelle · #4 05-20-2003, 04:58 PM

So What happens if you feel a group is hazing, but the pledges/ actives don't? Should you report it?

I think my friend's fraternity has asked them to do some questionable things. He thinks it's fun and games. When I told him and his pledge master (at the same time) I thought what they were doing was hazing and they should stop, they both said it wsn't hazing at all because an email was sent to the pledges saying they didn't have to participate in anything if they didn't want to (I don't feel this excuses their behavior). I don't want to get them in trouble because they are nice guys, and I think they haze less than the other chapters on campus. I've already voiced my opinion to the pledge master and my friend....
What would you do?

LXAAlum · #5 05-20-2003, 05:22 PM

Touchy, touchy subject.

First of all, simply overhearing can be construed as heresay, and more than likely, nothing will be done in terms of investigation. Should you feel obligated to still report it, make sure it is DOCUMENTED.

However, if you actually WITNESS hazing, if you don't report it, you only help propagate it. The high school in Chicago should be proof enough, that, left unchecked, sooner or later "harmless fun and games" can turn very dangerous!

I've been in this position - and I've reported to a chapter advisor that his active members were hazing (I saw it for myself, they weren't even attempting to hide it). The chapter was placed on probation, righted itself temporarily, but then reverted and was eventually closed.

It was a very difficult decision to make, nor was it popular, but ultimately the right one.

aurora_borealis · #6 05-20-2003, 06:31 PM

33girl - I understand what you mean. Some people don't think they are hazed, some do, and others don't care. A lot of the things she mentioned are hazing, both physical and psychological. So even if she didn't feel hazed or even care, the process she described fit the definitions of hazing.

AOX81 - If it was a group on my campus, I'd likely do what you did. However I am not positive which campus she is from. I know which campuses she is not from, since some are still in school due to the quarter system. But you are so right that eyes and ears are everywhere. I doubt she thought that anyone in Anchorage had heard of her group. I am glad those girls depledged and also reported their experience, that takes a lot of character.

XOMichelle - I am trying to come up with a good analogy but all mine stink. If they don't feel they are hazed, whether they are or not, until they think they are being hazed, it won't matter what you or anyone else says. You voiced your concerns and you really can't do much else. I would have likely done the same thing. The sad thing is that it will continue even if someone gets hurt/maimed/killed because the hazers and the hazed don't find anything wrong with it, or don't want to rock the boat.

LXAAlum - I wasn't ever planning on reporting it. I don't know the particular chapter she is from. I made the post because it was a case of someone not realizing that they are not as anonymous as they think.

I just got back form lunch with the same two friends, and the subject came up again. We were still kind of stunned that she told her friend the whole process, and all the details. My understanding of many non NPC groups is that the whole process is not something to be discussed with nonmembers. It is private like ritual, and isn't something one would discuss with outsiders, let alone in public. Obviously not every group is the same, but she was using terms like line sisters and crossing, so that is where I made the connection.

PSK480 · #7 05-23-2003, 10:44 PM

I know in PA the anti-hazing law states that you can not consent to hazing, in other words you can't give someone permission to hit you, have you run, eat disgusting food, yell at you, etc. I know the laws on hazing are extremely broad, everyone has something different and in some states hazing is anything you do and in others it's only a few things. Just figured I'd toss that out for thought.

AGDLynn · #8 05-24-2003, 10:04 AM

O.C.G.A. 16-5-61.

(a) As used in this Code section, the term:

(1) 'Haze' means to subject a student to an activity which endangers or is likely to endanger the physical health of a student, regardless of a student´s willingness to participate in such activity.

(2) 'School' means any school, college, or university in this state.

(3) 'School organization' means any club, society, fraternity, sorority, or a group living together which has students as its principal members.

(4) 'Student' means any person enrolled in a school in this state.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any person to haze any student in connection with or as a condition or precondition of gaining acceptance, membership, office, or other status in a school organization.

(c) Any person who violates this Code section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.

Which means persons doing the hazing can be arrested, fingerprinted and have a crimiinal record. Some states, such as Georgia, can also arrest those who are a party to the crime (aid/abet), have prior or post knowledge of, facilitate.....

DeltaGammaRocks · #9 05-24-2003, 07:49 PM

Are non-greek sororities and fraternities allowed to haze? Because I know for a fact that almost every single chapter here that isn't part of NPC or IFC hazes...

Gamma_Beta · #10 05-24-2003, 08:35 PM

Being a part of sorority that is not NPC or NPHC, I have something to say. If the sorority or fraternity is any way associated with Panhel or IFC then they can be brought up on hazing. Also if it is in your student handbook that hazing is not allowed then the group can get in trouble. And if you don't which rule superceeds each other, just use the one that is more on the conservative side.

Have a great Day!!!!!