night club catches on fire- at least 75 dead

KappaTarzan · #1 02-21-2003, 03:07 PM

so somewhat near my house (an hour or so away in RI) a night club caught on fire during a show by the great white... at least 75 are confirmed dead, and the number is expected to rise... apparantly the chaos turned into a fight until the death, literally.. they were hitting each other while trying to get out, people literally got trampled..

with that in mind, what do you all think about pyrotechnics, which caused this fire? that they are safe and this is just a fluke? or that they are unneccessary and endanger people? what about maximum capacity, would you leave a club/party because the maximum fire capacity had been reached?

Kevin · #2 02-21-2003, 03:28 PM

I think in the coming days we'll hear that the place wasn't up to fire code of something of that nature. I saw some of the video coming through on the 24-hour stations early this morning. Very tragic.

PM_Mama00 · #3 02-21-2003, 03:42 PM

It was up to code. It had just been inspected last week.

I think pyrotechnics are just not needed... especially indoors. If it is an indoor concert, then I don't see a problem. I think it was just an unfortunate accident, but now club owners need to fix that problem. I know there is a club near here called Space and they have indoor fireworks, and they fit over a thousand people in it. I raelly doubt I'll ever go there.

ladybug1116 · #4 02-21-2003, 04:02 PM

I was up late last night and came across live coverage from Fox News. Anyway, they were interviewing the stage manager who says that the club never approved those pyrotechnic effects...those were too much for such a small enclosed space. Also the fire marshall (or someone) confirmed that Great White had never filed a permit for pyrotechnics. The place was up to code. People on the news this morning were trying to make the club sound horrible b/c there was no sprinkler system but again the fire marshall said that the place was not required to have such a system b/c of its small size.

The place was not at max capacity and all four exits were available. On a separate interview this morning someone who was actually there said that within 3 minutes all of the lights went out and the place was completely filled with smoke. So it makes sense why people became trapped. Imagine being disoriented, frightened, inhaling smoke and trying to fight 300 or so people to an exit. It's really awful to think about.....

Dionysus · #5 02-21-2003, 04:24 PM

with that in mind, what do you all think about pyrotechnics, which caused this
fire? that they are safe and this is just a fluke? or that they are unneccessary
and endanger people?

Yes I think they are unnecessary and not even worth the risk. Some things just do not belong indoors.

what about maximum capacity, would you leave a
club/party because the maximum fire capacity had been reached?

Probably now!

The death toll has moved to 86.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/875480.asp

AlphaSigOU · #6 02-21-2003, 05:31 PM

As one who is very familiar with pyrotechnics (I once worked for a company that made model rocket motors), I feel it was downright irresponsible to use them indoors, especially without any measures to put out any fires which would inevitably be caused by stray bits of glowing metal particles.

Shortly after I started work for that company I was reminded in no uncertain terms how dangerous and deadly the work could be. We had a modified drill press which had attached a vacuum cleaner to suck up propellant shavings into a 55-gallon drum as we either drilled out grains or set delay charges. About once every month we'd empty out the drum and box up the shavings for disposal. Unlike black powder model rocket motors, which can be destroyed by soaking them in water, the only way to destroy composite model rocket motor shavings and discards was to take them out in the desert and burn them. Away from prying eyes and crowds (and with the approval of the fire marshal), we burned the stuff in a spectacular fireball. On calm days you'd see a perfectly formed mushroom cloud, though it was nowhere near the scale of an atomic bomb.

One time my boss dipped a small Dixie cup full of propellant shavings and took me outside the building, he then placed the cup on the ground, ran about a foot of Thermalite detonating cord and lit it. We were standing a good ways away when the stuff ignited. POOF! A fireball about two or three feet in diameter erupts, consuming the cup and shavings instantly. You could feel the heat and shockwave of the explosion even where we were standing. Should that 55-gallon drum of shavings go up, kiss the factory and the rest of the building goodbye. (Tragically, it did happen in October 2001, long after I left.)

Seeing the horrific images of the fire's beginnings (which are being milked for all they're worth on TV), it doesn't take very long for a fire to spread quickly; it's been said that within three to five minutes of the fire starting on stage, the fire was already reaching flashover conditions (when the temperatures get high enough to ignite just about anything in sight).

86 people (and the death toll keeps climbing) lost their lives through wanton disregard in handling pyrotechnics. Just makes me sick.

Even if they had sufficient exits and complied with local fire codes, it's almost an instinctive reaction for people in a panic situation to make their way to the exit they've come in, even though there are perfectly good exit doors not ten feet from them. I try to make it a point to be aware of my surroundings and observe where the nearest emergency exit is. It may be to the side or even behind you, but don't go out the way you came in!

texas*princess · #7 02-21-2003, 06:10 PM

The death toll is rising

At least 86 now.

I think the use of pyrotechnics is completely unneccessary when it comes to indoor events... esp. since the building did not have any sprinklers.

lifesaver · #8 02-21-2003, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaSigOU
Even if they had sufficient exits and complied with local fire codes, it's almost an instinctive reaction for people in a panic situation to make their way to the exit they've come in, even though there are perfectly good exit doors not ten feet from them. I try to make it a point to be aware of my surroundings and observe where the nearest emergency exit is. It may be to the side or even behind you, but don't go out the way you came in!

Thats the lesson of all this. All too often, peopel tend to act like sheep. its too bad there wasnt anyone in there who could have acted in a leadership role helping people use the other emergency exits.

The images of the people trapped at the front door is horrible.

I will be making it a point from now on to notice the exits wherever I go. That sucks for those people.

wiss22 · #9 02-21-2003, 06:53 PM

i think it's so sad... especially now that my local news is showing video from the show/events before, during, & after the fire. now the count is up to 95. i just can't believe it.

#10 02-21-2003, 07:23 PM

Yep--the death toll is up to 95 now.

The incident happened when it was still early evening here so I was watching it on MSNBC when they didn't even know how many fatalities there were yet.

Of course there's going to be conflicting reports on whether or not they had permission to use pyros. A rep for the band says yes, a rep for the club says no...common sense says that one shouldn't be playing with fire indoors anyway, and unfortunately the curtain caught on fire and the place was ablaze in a matter of 3 minutes.

I thought it was ironic how the WPRI guy was doing a story on club/bar safety in response to the Chicago E2 incident. It's eerie watching what happened on that video...people were just standing there, not realizing that everything catching fire was *NOT* part of the show.

My prayers go out to all the people involved in this tragedy.

damasa · #11 02-21-2003, 07:32 PM

The news here is saying that resuce crews have recovered all of the bodies inside. They are also saying that it's the worst fire in U.S. history in almost a century....wow.....

texas*princess · #12 02-21-2003, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Quoted from OTWIt's eerie watching what happened on that video...people were just standing there, not realizing that everything catching fire was *NOT* part of the show.

Yep that is incredibly scary. The news reported that some people first were excited and thought it was part of the show.

sugar and spice · #13 02-21-2003, 07:49 PM

According to cnn.com, one of the band's guitarists is among the missing.

The club was NOT at capacity when this happened.

Hootie · #14 02-21-2003, 08:04 PM

On the NBC news tonight they showed actual video of the event. According to some who did make it out the pyrotechnics went off and the back part of the stage (from what I could see) caught on fire and people were wondering if it was still part of the concert and if it wasn't why no one was putting out the fire.

The lead singer to Great White said that they were given permission to do the pyrotechnics and the club says they were not. So obviously conflicting reports there!

As a coworker said it's easy to see how people became disoriented. Especially if you think about when you go to a club, you go in one door and often don't think to look for other exits. So when the fire broke out people probably ran for the main exit because that's where they came in at.

AlphaSigOU · #15 02-21-2003, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by damasa
The news here is saying that resuce crews have recovered all of the bodies inside. They are also saying that it's the worst fire in U.S. history in almost a century....wow.....

Not quite... the Cocoanut Grove supper club fire in Boston back in the 40s killed 492.

During the early days of World War II, a major fire struck the Cocoanut Grove nightclub in Boston, Massachusetts. On the night of the fire, November 28, 1942, the club had approximately 1,000 occupants, many of whom were people preparing to go overseas on military duty. A lighted match used by an employee in changing a light bulb has been considered the possible cause for this tragic fire, which took 492 lives. Almost half of the occupants were killed, and many were seriously injured. Flammable decorations spread the fire rapidly. Men and women were reported to have clawed inhumanly in an effort to get out of the building. The two revolving doors at the main entrance had bodies stacked four and five deep after the fire was brought under control. Authorities estimated that possibly 300 of those killed could have been saved had the doors swung outward. It should be noted that the capacity of the structure had also been exceeded.

The Cocoanut Grove fire prompted major efforts in the field of fire prevention and control for nightclubs and other related places of assembly. Immediate steps were taken to provide for emergency lighting and occupant capacity placards in places of assembly. Exit lights were also required as a result of the concern generated by this fire.

[Source: http://www.ezl.com/~fireball/Disaster21.htm]

Another fire at the Beverly Hills Supper Club in Southgate, KY on June 28, 1977 killed 165.

http://www.cincypost.com/bhfire/ Detailed map of how the Beverly Hills fire started and spread: http://www.cincypost.com/bhfire/images/bhfire.jpg