Punishment

The1calledTKE · #1 10-10-2001, 01:41 PM

What is your opinion on what the punishment for hazing should be? I think if its pysical hazing that the chapter be suspended for a year. And if its mental maybe be put on probation for an year.

LexiKD · #2 10-10-2001, 05:35 PM

Well, in NC hazing is illegal, I would assume it is everywhere else as well.

I assume the chapter would be prohibited from staying on that campus if it was at a State supported school? I am not sure beacuse we didn't have a group get caught while I was in school.

I wouldn't mind hearing what has actually happend at schools from everyone else if they have been through it.

The1calledTKE · #3 10-10-2001, 07:15 PM

Well SAE has been in trouble for physical and mental hazing twice at my school. The first one which was considered minor. They got suspended for a year and was told they could not rush.(They did anyway.) They next year they got caught by the cops for kicking their pledges out in some field. The pledges had deer piss and all kinds of other crap poured on them. The school kicked them off campus and their nationals yanked their charter for a year. After a year and a half they are back on campus but mainly with new guys because I heard that their nationals de-brothered like half of the chapter that was there before. The other hazing story is about Pi Kappa Phi. They got caught paddling their pledges and were suspended for a year and not allowed to carry their paddles around ever again.(The pledges always carryed a small paddle with them to get signatures from the brothers).

DeltAlum · #4 10-10-2001, 07:29 PM

It's too simplistic to say probation for mental and suspension for physical.

Some mental hazing can be as brutal for a person as getting beaten.

As ecukd points out, and I've said many times before, it's illegal.

The1calledTKE · #5 10-10-2001, 07:31 PM

Yep it is but unless some one gets killed or badly hurt the cops don't really do anything about it. And most schools like mine are pretty lax on hazing.

damasa · #6 10-11-2001, 02:07 AM

i've heard it's illegal sworn up and down, and up and down again...but when you take it out of context..what does it really mean? Drinking under the age of 21 is illegal...does it happen still? You are damn right it does...and a college campus and the neighborhoods surrounding are a haven for such activity. The cops try to control it, the university tries to control it, but they can only stop or punish what they see. Hazing is illegal, yes, but does it still exist, you are damn right. Do I see that changing anytime soon? Probably not. Why, do I feel this way? Look at how many issues and cases still pop up, not just hazing in glos, but hazing frosh sports players, hazing the newbies in high school sports teams or other clubs and whatnot. Granted it is illegal, but illegal is such a loose term, many overlook that fact. Many do not realize or even think that what they are doing is bad, until it is too late.

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shadokat · #7 10-11-2001, 10:00 AM

The punishment for hazing varies in all national organization based on the situation. Most national organizations are not going to stand for hazing, whether it be mental or physical, and when caught, the chapter will pay a price. Some fraternities and sororities have been pulling charters and recolonizing anew after the crop of initiated members has graduated. Others will just have a national visitor very often!! The whole, you can't take new members, punishment is just crap, because groups will do it underground anyway. That is just asking for numbers problems. If you're going to take someone's charter, then just do it. Don't force their hands into folding b/c of numbers.

As everyone said, hazing is illegal, and even if it is still happening, that doesn't change the fact that it is punishable by law!

damasa · #8 10-11-2001, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shadokat

As everyone said, hazing is illegal, and even if it is still happening, that doesn't change the fact that it is punishable by law!

Yes, but how many other things are punishable by the law as well? Many crimes happen, and in some cases more are left to be unsolved, untried and unpunished. It is illegal indeed, but that doesn't mean it's going to stop people from doing it.

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LexiKD · #9 10-11-2001, 10:52 AM

Well, hazing will reflect on your entire organization, not just your chapter and when it comes down to that, for me, I would say personal accountablility and self control step in.

Underage drinking is a separate issue, we do not allow underage drinking at our functions, what members do on their own time cannot be controled 100%, we can only lead by example and hope everyone is responsible when they party.

We all can do whatever we want, but you cannot do whatever you want and be Greek, I think so at least.

Discretionary effort says alot about a person and staying within the law,when your organization is on the line, sounds like a good starting point for me...it actually sounds more like respect.

damasa · #10 10-11-2001, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ecukd

We all can do whatever we want, but you cannot do whatever you want and be Greek, I think so at least.

see...i thought going greek was supposed to be all in fun. Now, like you just stated....you can't do whatever you want and be greek. It is a sign of change....I don't know if the change is going to be good....but...it's definately some kind of sign.

On that note...I'm not defending underage drinking or hazing, but as much as we hate to admit it, they both exist, and they exist everywhere. By just telling someone that something is illegal or against the rules isn't going to stop them. Sometimes, it takes a reality check for someone to realize that something isn't good. It's sad but very, very true.

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LexiKD · #11 10-11-2001, 11:10 AM

Well, I think being Greek shouldn't be about what everyone else can do. Being Greek is fun, but that doesn't mean let's fly off the handle bars and be crazy.

You have a chapter and a National organization that has given you many awesome oppurtunities to attain goals and to assure those oppurtunites are there for future generations would be a #1 on my list...so it makes sense to try not to do things that will insure embarassment and/or hard times on your group.

I know it happens, I saw it when I was in school, but just becasue it happens doesn't mean we should be OK with it or say it will always be a part of Greek Life.

damasa · #12 10-11-2001, 11:18 AM

hrm..i never said i was ok with it..i disagree with it...but the fact remains..will it be part of greek life? Probably for a while to come.
That's something a lot of people don't want to hear, but it is true.

DeltAlum · #13 10-12-2001, 10:51 AM

This is crazy.

Being Greek has never been about "all fun" and "doing anything you want." Nothing in life is.

I strongly suggest (again) that you all subscribe to Fraternal News -- expecially if you think a lot of the rules are either ignored or not enforced by the universities and colleges.

Felons figure they'll never get caught either.

Consider...

Five chapters closed at Indiana. Theta Chi loses its approved housing status at Nebraska. (All due to alcohol violations and/or hazing by the way). More students with stomachs pumped. People falling out of windows. Another GHB/Alcohol death.

Big troubles in a lot of big Greek schools.

And that's just a tiny part of the list.

Better get out of your insulated world. The rest of it is changing.

What colleges aren't enforcing, Nationals are. All of the above are forcing their hand. They have no choice.

The lawsuits are naming multiples -- Chapters, Universities, Nationals, Advisors, Officers. How would you feel about losing a legal action and beginning your adult life owing someones family a million dollars?

This is serious s--t! This isn't fun and games!

As our pal Tom Earp said (borrowing from an old TV show), "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."

Are you ready to risk the future of your chapter? Your future? Your parents financial future? Your National Organization.

Come on, Brothers, wake up, before you find yourselves members of a former Fraternity! Or named in a lawsuit. Or under arrest.

Don't take my word for it. Read about it. Think about it.

Do something about it.

shadokat · #14 10-12-2001, 11:59 AM

When I pledged, I knew that there would be a lot of fun, but I was certainly not deluded to believe there wouldn't be work. I don't see how hazing is fun, but I guess that's because I didn't have to deal with it.

The point is that because something goes on doesn't make it ok. I'm quite sure we could find a hundred cases of hazing where nobody was criminally indicted or prosecuted, but cases do exist, and any law enforcement official can choose to prosecute if he/she feels the need to do so. So by sitting back and saying, well XYZ does it and they're not in trouble, so we can too, that's just silly.

Underage drinking is a whole nother ball of wax. But as ecukd specified, her chapter doesn't allow those under 21 to drink at her sorority's events. This is more the trend if you're under an alcohol free housing policy with your university. And even more than this, I would be willing to bet that everybody's alcohol and risk management policies state that all members must comply with all state and federal law, so by drinking underage, you violate policy, and hence, lose insurance coverage and can be dealt with on a national level.

damasa · #15 10-12-2001, 01:30 PM

LOL
I know that being in a glo shouldn't be about just fun. Of course there is work, this I know, I happen to be treasurer at this time. It's a lot of work.
But to that end, I have heard and read about a lot of chapter closings, nationals and universities cracking down and what not...but I also hear the vast majority of hazing cases and etc. I don't live in an insulated world, and to think that completely erasing any illegal activity from anything, is living in an insulated world. Face it, there are always people that aren't going to abide by law or the rules, it's life.
Yes felons may think they will never get caught..but..not all felons do get caught...a high percentage may..but not all...

To that end..these are my final comments...like I said before, I don't condone hazing or underage drinking or any other illegal activity, but others do or would.

And talking about laws and such is such a broad concept...we are talking a mix of political science, criminal justice and sociology. Many things and circumstances affect the outcomes of many situations. Some outcomes are good, some are not.

-Not everything in the world can be peachy.-

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