Politics: Haitian and other Immigrants

[Love_Spell_6]

OK. I hope everybody saw the news story that I'm referring to. If not, here's a link.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,66995,00.html

All over the news, approx. 200 hundred Haitians were being shown running to their freedom. The Haitians were running up and down a highway, stopping cars, cheering etc..

My questions to GC'rs are do you think they should be deported? According to our laws, the Haitians are entitled to their "day in court" and if they can prove extreme repression, they are allowed to stay. But...the sidekick Sniper's immigration status as a stow-a-way isn't going to help them.

And on somewhat of a different note....what do you all think about folx who are in this country, working, but cannot speak a lick of the English?

Personally, I feel the US's borders are MUCH too open to immigrants. There are estimates that as many as 8 million illegal immigrants are in this country. ESPECIALLY after 3 of the 9/11 hijackers were in this country illegal. However..... if Cubans are offered asylum if/when they reach dry soil, why isn't this applied accross the board? Is political/economic repression any worse in Cuba than Haiti? ....I could think of an obvious answer...but I won't go there right now....

Also, I know this may sound a little too American, but is it too much to ask that if you're in this country that you MUST KNOW THE DANG LANGUAGE?!?!? confused:

If you all are interested I'll elaborate more

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
However..... if Cubans are offered asylum if/when they reach dry soil, why isn't this applied accross the board? Is political/economic repression any worse in Cuba than Haiti?

I've been wondering the same thing myself. I would LOVE to hear the "logic" behind that policy.

[snuggles12]

http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~hns/artic...0/040600a.html

http://www.flipside.org/vol3/jan00/00ja23a.htm

The articles above explain the "politics" of granting asylum to Cubans and not to Haitians.

I think the Haitians will be deported.

Now if there were a wave of Cubans coming over who don't look like Elian, I bet you would see the US stopping the inflow of dark skinned Cubans.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6

And on somewhat of a different note....what do you all think about folx who are in this country, working, but cannot speak a lick of the English?


Also, I know this may sound a little too American, but is it too much to ask that if you're in this country that you MUST KNOW THE DANG LANGUAGE?!?!? confused:

We have this problem in Minnesota with Somali immigrants. Not only do they not speak the language but they are rather rude about it. I worked with a social services agency that had a Somali program that provided welfare-to-work services and skills training. On many occasion I had conversations with the English speaking director of the program interrupted by Somali clients who would literally come and stand between us and start a conversation with the director in Somali. Never an "excuse me", "I'm sorry but this is very important", just an interruption that many times appeared to be a social conversation. I asked the director why she allowed this because it was disrespectful and she would just say "that's just the way my people are" and laugh.

There have been many clashes between Somalis and African American youths because of this and the lack of good communications due to the language barrier. And the need to learn our language is not urgent because we go out of our way to provide translators in the schools and workplaces. And we provide jobs that do not require a command of the English language other than a few rudimentary phrases like good morning and have a nice day.

On another note, employers and schools also must provide adequate time and space for the Somalis to make prayer every day since they are predominately Muslim. While, I don't have a problem with this per se, my issue is why wasn't this done before for all of the American Muslims? Okay, don't get me started

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
And on somewhat of a different note....what do you all think about folx who are in this country, working, but cannot speak a lick of the English?

Personally, I feel the US's borders are MUCH too open to immigrants. There are estimates that as many as 8 million illegal immigrants are in this country. ESPECIALLY after 3 of the 9/11 hijackers were in this country illegal. However..... if Cubans are offered asylum if/when they reach dry soil, why isn't this applied accross the board? Is political/economic repression any worse in Cuba than Haiti? ....I could think of an obvious answer...but I won't go there right now....

Also, I know this may sound a little too American, but is it too much to ask that if you're in this country that you MUST KNOW THE DANG LANGUAGE?!?!? confused:

If you all are interested I'll elaborate more

I am not that bugged by immigrants, regardless of race. The fact is that there are some jobs to be done and Americans won't do them because of low wages and poor working conditions, hence the market for immigration.

I just don't see many native-born Americans cleaning toilets or saying, "Would you like fries with that?" unless they are teenagers or in college.

As an aside, when I left my native SoCal for the South in 1990 and visited Atlanta for the first time, I was when I saw AfAms doing jobs such as sweeping and cleaning up Underground Atlanta.

In Cali, "we" don't do that type of work. Many of us were either in the service or civilian public sector. If not for the military, government and public education, there would not be a black middle class, IMO.

[kdonline]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6

All over the news, approx. 200 hundred Haitians were being shown running to their freedom. The Haitians were running up and down a highway, stopping cars, cheering etc..

My questions to GC'rs are do you think they should be deported? According to our laws, the Haitians are entitled to their "day in court" and if they can prove extreme repression, they are allowed to stay. But...the sidekick Sniper's immigration status as a stow-a-way isn't going to help them.

...

Personally, I feel the US's borders are MUCH too open to immigrants. There are estimates that as many as 8 million illegal immigrants are in this country. ESPECIALLY after 3 of the 9/11 hijackers were in this country illegal. However..... if Cubans are offered asylum if/when they reach dry soil, why isn't this applied accross the board? Is political/economic repression any worse in Cuba than Haiti? ....I could think of an obvious answer...but I won't go there right now....

Whoa! Way too much for just one message/thread! So I'll just comment on what happened yesterday.

I am a native non-hispanic Miamian - born, raised, lived, worked for over 30 years. Only time I left was when I went to UF - total culture shock to be around so many "Americans". I've only been living 30 miles north for 1.5 years (married a Lauderdale boy)...but I'm in Miami quite a bit since my family & friends all live there.

The Haitians hit the shore 3 miles from my neighborhood. Talk about panic! I couldn't imagine living in one of those high rises on Brickell & seeing this happen!

Anyway, maybe this is the first time you guys are hearing about the plight of Haitian vs Cuban refugees, but this has been going on for years. Simply put, it's economic asylum (Haitian) vs. political asylum (Cuban). The U.S. does not grant economic asylum. I don't understand why the U.S. doesn't recognize the anarchy of the Haitian government...but guess what? There is more to this - that the eye CAN see.

[MaNessa]

The United States will never openly/willingly admit people of color without the hassle. There is no question in my mind the Haitians will be deported.
It's really ashame cause the United States helped create the horrible conditions the people are trying to flee.

[NewBee]

No, I don't think they should be deported. I believe the are entitled to at least a chance to prove in court why they are entitle to stay. I think its very hypocritical of us a nation to call oursleves the "Land of the Free", etc., and so many similiar connotations and yet we don't embrace this mentality. I understand people are scared since 9-11 but honestly what if the terrorist weren't foreigners, would we still be so bent on discriminating against entirte races and relitions? And yet two handfuls of people make us do just that everyday. We do so much more to ourselves than any outside groups have done or will do. Its so funny how the news can turn good "American" citizens into bigots! No, its actually quite sad what we have become because of fear and ignorance. Maybe I am just sad how especially BLACK PEOPLE have been so quit to get on the hate wagon when we know how it feels to be targeted out. I love all people and there is nothing that any few people can do to change that. I am not ignorant enough to beleive that culure and race determine everyone's total behaviour. And to say speak the language is really quite rude. The last time I checked we dont have an official language, that's probably the one thing that makes us cool. We are supposed to respect and protect people's beleifs, culture, and speech which includes language.

[Love_Spell_6]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NewBee
No, I don't think they should be deported. I believe the are entitled to at least a chance to prove in court why they are entitle to stay. I think its very hypocritical of us a nation to call oursleves the "Land of the Free", etc., and so many similiar connotations and yet we don't embrace this mentality. I understand people are scared since 9-11 but honestly what if the terrorist weren't foreigners, would we still be so bent on discriminating against entirte races and relitions? And yet two handfuls of people make us do just that everyday. We do so much more to ourselves than any outside groups have done or will do.

Ok.... I am glad you said this. So. do you think we should just let everyone in who wants to come? I mean where does it end? Why not just let Saadam float on a boat over here? I actually think our borders should be closed to everyone right now until we get our "own house" in order. I mean 8 million illegals running around....when will enough be enough? Yea we're the land of the free, but not for every dang body! I'm tired of my tax dollars going to SUPPORT people who come over here...a lot of times they drain the local economies!

Now I'm all for people coming in LEGALLY...that way we could regulate things like do they have jobs, any diseases, and evaluate their means for being here. BUt boat loads washing up on our shores are ridiculous to me!! Regardless of the color of your skin!

And to say speak the language is really quite rude. The last time I checked we dont have an official language, that's probably the one thing that makes us cool. We are supposed to respect and protect people's beleifs, culture, and speech which includes language.

OK, I'm also glad you said this too. Where does this stop? Why don't all of us just speak different languages? We'd really get a lot accomplished that way.... Don't we have to have a common ground on which to communicate?? BUt yet foreigners can come here, don't have to speak the language, and get $$ to open a business..... yea if I just got a Social Security number last year...my credit would be the bomb too!!

Whether we have an official language or not is not the point. Who do you think pays to print state manuals and STOP signs in Spanish??? THE TAXPAYERS!!!!! ANd I'm sick of it! SPEAK ENGLISH...THIS IS AMERICA!! IF you don't like it, you can always go back home. I am proud of America,....shortcomings and all. I know we're not perfect, but please... name just ONE other country that has done more good than the US.........can't do it can ya?

[NewBee]

Does anyone watch Oprah? Today I happened to be watching it and one of the things they discussed is how the media perpetuates fear, and also in many cases there really isn't any real reason to be scared. Sound familiar?

Ok.... I am glad you said this. So. do you think we should just let everyone in who wants to come? I mean where does it end? Why not just let Saadam float on a boat over here? I actually think our borders should be closed to everyone right now until we get our "own house" in order. I mean 8 million illegals running around....when will enough be enough? Yea we're the land of the free, but not for every dang body! I'm tired of my tax dollars going to SUPPORT people who come over here...a lot of times they drain the local economies!

My thing is this, I didn't have a problem with foreigners before 9-11 and I am not going to have a problem now. I can not judge entire countries or religions based on a handful of people. If I did that than maybe I could concede that the terrorist were right by judging America as godless based on our M-tv-ish images. But I don't. Its not fair to anyway. I strongly feel people just need to think for themselves instead of being programmed by the media to react. People dont realize the control and power that they have over them.

As far as the language thing, yes it is uncomfortable at times when you can't communicate but you have to respect people's language and culture regardless. I have seen people try to learn English and they are still looked down upon because of an accent or made to feel stupid. America is probably one of the only countries where we teach our kids to just speak English and just expect everyone else to conform. I have a freind from Togo sp?, a country in Africa, and by the time kids are like 7 they already know at least 2 languages and by the time they are 12 I think he said they know 5, including English. Most countries teach their children to adapt to foriegners, so that they can get along with others. Why do we always adopt the, "Our way or the highway policy?"

[kdonline]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6


Whether we have an official language or not is not the point. Who do you think pays to print state manuals and STOP signs in Spanish???

Where are there stop signs in Spanish?

[lovele1978]

This whole issue with immigrants from other countries in th US has been unfair from the start. If you look into the politics of the Haitian government and the living standards it is far worse than most of the countries on this side of the hemisphere. Haiti is a country that is divided by the "haves" and the "have nots". It's funny how America is always trying to police other countries around the world, but won't even look at one in it's own backyard.

What is also disturbing is that how an entire country can be judged on a few. My entire family is Jamaican immigrants that came to this country in the 70's and most of us are college educated professionals. You would be surprised of the deragatory comments that I have heard regarding Jamaicans ever since the sniper incident broke out.

I do not condone illegal immigrants in this country and it is a problem and this has been a problem even before 9-11. The government used to have more rigid criteria in giving out visa's for some countries than others. While they were locking out the Haitians and the Jamaicans they were letting the Arabs in, but who has done the worse damage. My point is if you are going to have a criteria for immigrants in this country let it be fair across the board.