fake Greeks

OnePlus69Is70 · #1 10-17-2002, 12:24 PM

My top peeve today is Kappa Kappa Psi. They're not real Greeks- they're the national band service fraternity. They're not part of a council, the school doesn't monitor them like they do the NIC and NPC groups, but they still wear letters and act just as though they were Greek- they even rent a house in the next town. And they haze the CRAP out of their pledges. But they're not real Greeks, so the school can't touch them.

I'm in a local. We don't have to belong to IFC, or participate with the other Greeks, but we do it because it's what we ought to do. And these schmucks come in and give Greeks a bad name and there's nothing that can be done?!

texas*princess · #2 10-17-2002, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OnePlus69Is70
My top peeve today is Kappa Kappa Psi. They're not real Greeks- they're the national band service fraternity. They're not part of a council, the school doesn't monitor them like they do the NIC and NPC groups, but they still wear letters and act just as though they were Greek- they even rent a house in the next town. And they haze the CRAP out of their pledges. But they're not real Greeks, so the school can't touch them.

I'm in a local. We don't have to belong to IFC, or participate with the other Greeks, but we do it because it's what we ought to do. And these schmucks come in and give Greeks a bad name and there's nothing that can be done?!

Hmm. Well I have to say what you just posted did offend me. While I do not agree with what you *say* is going on with Kappa Kappa Psi, nor am I a member of Kappa Kappa Psi, I am a proud member of Delta Sigma Pi which is a professional fraternity for men and women in business. I wear my letters with pride and still consider myself Greek even though I am not a member of an NPC organization. We work just as hard when it comes to community service and everything else.

Kappa Kappa Psi *does* have a governing body (Professional Fraternity Association) and even though there might not be a PFA council at your school I think it is extremely *unfair* for you to judge an entire organization just by one chapter because they are not "real" Greeks in your book.

And it's not just these "fake" Greeks that give all Greeks a bad name. Unfortunately, sometimes hazing does happen in NPC, IFC, and other types of GLO's, so it's not just these "fake" greeks giving you a bad name.

CarolinaCutie · #3 10-17-2002, 12:39 PM

I am agreeing with texas*princess on this one. I'm in an NPC sorority... but still, when I read this, I was like "What the heck?"

You need to remember that PLENTY of people think the same thing about local fraternities and sororities... in a general sense, it's a little like the pot calling the kettle black.

Like T*P said, hazing occurs in all organizations, sadly, whether they are gonna get in trouble with their national org. or not.

There are plenty of service GLOs that are very very similar to social GLOs... look around GreekChat, and you'll be sure to find members of these orgs. I don't really think that you're the authority on who is a "real" Greek and who is not.

OnePlus69Is70 · #4 10-17-2002, 12:50 PM

This is not a matter of 'saying' it's a matter of knowing. I know they get away with things that would get us closed, simply because no one watches them. I know because I have friends in the band, and I go to the parties.

I'll be fair- it's not just them that I have this problem with. There's a vicious double-standard, and it's particularly bothering me today, so I'm griping.

Amherst has a no-keg law- you can't have a keg inside the township without a special permit, and they're insanely hard to get. Now, if a student living off campus gets caught with a keg, Greek or not, they're supposed to be brought up on university disciplinary charges. How often do you suppose the police report GDI parties to the university, as opposed to Greek parties?

On the same theme, we have to keep house grades up, or our underclassmen have to move back into the dorms. Now, if a dorm had a low average gpa, do you think they would discipline the housemaster for it? or move underclassmen into other dorms? I've suggested it, and been told to stop being silly.

My house works hard, keeps good relations with our neighbors, don't haze our pledges- we try so hard to do everything right. Why should we bother if in the end they're going to treat us the same as if we didn't? Honestly, why don't I just move to an apartment complex, throw a kegger every night, and get a 0.8? I might gain a little respect around here.

(In case you hadn't guessed, this has not been a good week around here, and I'm just blowing off steam, so nod sympathetically and move on.)

LatinaAlumna · #5 10-17-2002, 12:55 PM

If you are really concerned with this group's hazing of your fellow students and subsequent tarnishing of all fraternities and sororities on your campus, why don't you turn them in to your student activities office? No matter what type of group they are, they are still held accountable to university rules and regulations, which usually include "NO HAZING."

Also, let's not add to the animosity here. If this organization that you speak of is helping people feel connected and get through college, then let them be. There should be something out there for everyone. However, if they are hazing, and you have proof of it (not just hearsay), then I suggest you turn them in before something really bad happens.

MysticCat · #6 10-17-2002, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OnePlus69Is70
But they're not real Greeks, so the school can't touch them.

Of course it can. It can withdraw recognition of the KKY chapter and it can discipline any students who have participated in hazing.

Edited to add:

After reading your second post, I think I see a little better where you are coming from. Still, though, it seems the university has the power to discipline the organization or the students involved.

All things said, from what you have posted in this and other threads, I'm glad I didn't go to school where you are. Definately sounds like a hostile environment.

OnePlus69Is70 · #7 10-17-2002, 01:05 PM

I checked this out, actually. KKPsi and its equivalent sorority, Tau Beta Sigma, are not actually registered student orgs. They're recognized and suprevised by the marching band, which is not about to do anything to them, not with the amount of hazing that goes on in the band anyway. (We had to ban certain members of our house from going to their band section initiations after we found out what goes on.)

This PFA sounds interesting, though. There's a fair number of professional fraternities here, it might be worthwhile to get them organized- put a leash on KKPsi and get things more organized. I'm in an academic fraternity too, it'd be good if it were connected to other groups like it.

MysticCat, be glad you don't go here. To anyone who's listening, DON'T GO TO UMASS. It's a terrible school on all counts, especially the Greek system. If I had it to do all over again, I'd be at UConn in a heartbeat.

swissmiss04 · #8 10-17-2002, 01:32 PM

If you have such a problem with the way they run their organization, why do you go to their parties?

OnePlus69Is70 · #9 10-17-2002, 01:40 PM

I haven't in about a year, though I've heard nothing's changed.

AngelPhiSig · #10 10-17-2002, 01:41 PM

Okay, I am a little upset by this thread.

At the moment I am PROUDLY wearing my Tau Beta Sigma letters. I am a REAL greek. I am in a social and in TBS. What your chapter of KKY is doing is wrong. They shouldnt be hazing and we are not allowed to have houses. TBS and KKY are BOTH NATIONAL honorary band organizations. Just like Phi Sigma Pi is honorary... they were letters. You cannot say that just cos someone isnt social that they cant wear letters. We have national, district and precinct conventions and have more chapters than some national social sororities. (Delta Omicron, my chapter is the 111th)

I hope that in the future before you bash an organization, you find out more about them, because you wouldnt want someone to do the same to yours.

If you need more information on TBS/KKY:

Tau Beta Sigma and Kappa Kappa Psi

My chapter: Delta Omicron

Editied to say:

UMASS is in my district, I will look into doing something about the hazing.

But again, PLEASE DONT GET ANGRY ABOUT MY SISTERS AND BROTHERS WEARING THEIR LETTERS!

OnePlus69Is70 · #11 10-17-2002, 01:43 PM

They can wear letters all they like, if they're behaving. There are lots of groups that wear letters, that aren't social Greeks, and I have no issue with them, because they don't do anything. Tau Beta Sigma I have no issue with, nor with Phi Beta Delta, our drum corps fraternity.

Edited to say:
If you're going to look into hazing with KKPsi, look at the band in general if you can. It's a problem the school likes to pretend isn't there. I know there are social Greeks here that still haze, but that's no excuse for any other group- we've got to rip it out everywhere.

AchtungBaby80 · #12 10-17-2002, 01:52 PM

I don't recall anyone saying that people in professional/service organizations cannot wear letters. I think what OnePlus means when he says this group is "fake" is that they are not on the greek council, or any for that matter, and they are out of control because they have no one to answer to like the rest of the Greek organizations on campus do. Is that right?

OnePlus69Is70 · #13 10-17-2002, 01:55 PM

Thank you, Achtung, yes. All the other groups, NIC, NPC, NPHC, and Ethnic/Multicultural, have a council and an advisor, and their advisor ultimately reports to the head of Campus Activities. The professional groups have a faculty member as a sponsor, or even no sponsor at all, they just exist.

Honestly, I'd like to see KKPsi and TBS and all those groups ultimately participate with the whole system, in philanthropies and such. But that's a long way off at this point.

AlphaSigLana · #14 10-17-2002, 02:05 PM

why are you so worried about other chapters? It seemed like it wasn't that long ago that you were saying that you really wanted to better your chapter. yeah it sucks when other Greeks wether NPC or not do things that are 'wrong' or whatever, but there comes a time when you need to stop worrying about everyone else and start improving your chapter. That's what my house did.

OnePlus69Is70 · #15 10-17-2002, 02:18 PM

Because it's not just about us. I'm running for IFC recruitment vp, because I'm worried that as a system we're not strong enough. When SAM's house got condemned, I was there the next day helping them fix the problems. Just because my chapter is OK doesn't mean I shouldn't help everyone else- if everyone watched out for each other, problems wouldn't grow out of hand.

If my house is perfect and everyone else is terrible, then my house isn't perfect, because we obviously aren't helping our fellow Greeks. My house isn't anywhere near perfect, but it doesn't mean I'm going to ignore all the things that go on around me until we are. Hazing in other organizations, Greek or not, shames us all.