Church Put out of Group for Baptizing Gay Men

[CrimsonTide4]

Posted on Tue, Apr. 29, 2003

Concord church put out of Baptist group
Cabarrus association objects to congregation that baptized gay men
KEN GARFIELD AND JAIME LEVY
Staff Writers

A Concord church was kicked out of the Cabarrus Baptist Association Monday night for baptizing two gay men.

Leaders of the group of 81 Southern Baptist churches agreed in a closed meeting to sever ties with McGill Baptist because it welcomed into the church -- and into a life devoted to Christ -- a gay couple who share a Kannapolis home.

Of 268 messengers, 250 voted to withdraw McGill Baptist's membership. Eleven voted in favor of McGill. Seven abstained.

The Rev. Randy Wadford, the association's missions director, read a statement after the vote in which he said "the homosexual lifestyle is contrary to God's will and plan for mankind.... To allow individuals into the membership of a local church without evidence or testimony of true repentance is to condone the old lifestyle."

After the vote, the Rev. Steve Ayers of McGill Baptist said, "The kingdom of Christ is about love, about God's grace and mercy. When a church becomes so judgmental that it can't accept people into their fellowship, it is a sad, sad day."

Ayers said being kicked out of the association doesn't have many practical implications.

He said the 800-member church, which moved in November to Poplar Tent Road near Concord Mills Mall, contributed to the association's food and clothing ministry. He said they'll find a new way to help the needy.

Spiritually, though, the Cabarrus controversy illustrates the gulf that continues to divide churches that seek to embrace gays and those that characterize homosexuality as a sin.

Speaking to association leaders Monday on behalf of McGill Baptist, lifelong member Wanda Ritchie said it's "almost unthinkable" for the association to seek to control the membership policy of one of its churches. The church, she said, is for everyone.

But Cabarrus County commissioner Coy Privette, representing North Kannapolis Baptist, said homosexuality is "an anti-Biblical standard of conduct," and that being baptized means repenting of such sins.

Ayers said the two gay men, one in his 40s and the other in his 60s, have declined comment, preferring to stay out of the spotlight. As much as the men are upset over the furor, Ayers said they are glad to have found a church home.

They both attended worship Sunday. When it came time for worshippers to sign the register and mark whether they are members of McGill Baptist, one of the men wrote, "Oh yes."


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I heard about this on the radio this morning and while I do believe homosexuality is a sin, that does not mean HOMOSEXUALS should be kept out of the church and all of its ordinances. FORNICATORS are up in CHURCH every Sunday, baptized, singing, ushering, PREACHING , etc. and no one says a word about THAT SIN!! Yet they are saying something about homosexuals. THIS is what keeps folks OUT OF CHURCH and IN CLOSETS!!

[Gyrl7]

I heard about this on the radio this morning and while I do believe homosexuality is a sin, that does not mean HOMOSEXUALS should be kept out of the church and all of its ordinances. FORNICATORS are up in CHURCH every Sunday, baptized, singing, ushering, PREACHING , etc. and no one says a word about THAT SIN!! Yet they are saying something about homosexuals. THIS is what keeps folks OUT OF CHURCH and IN CLOSETS!!

Chal you aint EVVA EVVA lied (beating my tamberine)!

[Mz Destiny]

Wow...and you wonder why people don't come to church...

[delph998]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[crunkone]

[i]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I heard about this on the radio this morning and while I do believe homosexuality is a sin, that does not mean HOMOSEXUALS should be kept out of the church and all of its ordinances. FORNICATORS are up in CHURCH every Sunday, baptized, singing, ushering, PREACHING , etc. and no one says a word about THAT SIN!! Yet they are saying something about homosexuals. THIS is what keeps folks OUT OF CHURCH and IN CLOSETS!! [/B]

I feel what you sayin' about fornicators being in church every Sunday. Sad, but true.

[Kisha]

That's crazy!



None of us are perfect, except God alone. Mark 10:18.

[librasoul22]

Question to anyone who wants to respond...

Why do you believe homosexuality is a sin? Not agreeing or disagreeing, just trying to be educated on the topic.

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by librasoul22
Question to anyone who wants to respond...

Why do you believe homosexuality is a sin? Not agreeing or disagreeing, just trying to be educated on the topic.

Many Christians believe this.

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/be.htm

[BirthaBlue4]

Originally posted by librasoul22
Question to anyone who wants to respond...

Why do you believe homosexuality is a sin? Not agreeing or disagreeing, just trying to be educated on the topic.

Well, the Bible does say that sex between 2 men/women is an "abomination". My thing is this: according to God, homosexuality is a sin, just like a lot of things (fornication in general as mentioned before). To baptize a gay person is the same to baptize a fornicator, a gossiper, or a glutton. Being baptized signifies a cleansing of the soul. The question is, does the church support the homosexuality after they've joined the church and been baptized or do they try to talk to them about what they're doing, as they would anyone doing anything else? The problem would be if they condoned their behavior as ok. We all sin daily, big and small, but we recognize that (hopefully) and ask for forgiveness, which is an ongoing process. If the 2 men are not doing that, then there would be a problem. If the church didn't in some way address this, that would be a problem. I don't mean jump in their face and condemn them as these other churches obviously would have done, but in a loving manner, taking care of them as they would and child of God.

[delph998]

Originally posted by BirthaBlue4
Well, the Bible does say that sex between 2 men/women is an "abomination". My thing is this: according to God, homosexuality is a sin, just like a lot of things (fornication in general as mentioned before). To baptize a gay person is the same to baptize a fornicator, a gossiper, or a glutton. Being baptized signifies a cleansing of the soul. The question is, does the church support the homosexuality after they've joined the church and been baptized or do they try to talk to them about what they're doing, as they would anyone doing anything else? The problem would be if they condoned their behavior as ok. We all sin daily, big and small, but we recognize that (hopefully) and ask for forgiveness, which is an ongoing process. If the 2 men are not doing that, then there would be a problem. If the church didn't in some way address this, that would be a problem. I don't mean jump in their face and condemn them as these other churches obviously would have done, but in a loving manner, taking care of them as they would and child of God.

Very well said, and just to add to that....abomination is not sin, abomination is wickedness. Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, not our wickedness. Now, you can ask for forgiveness and Christ will forgive. However, if you're going to continue that lifestyle...

by the way, congratulations SisterSoror BirthaBlue4. Welcome to the land of Greekdom!

[librasoul22]

Ok..to expand...

Since fornication is also a sin, wouldn't that make heterosexuality (at least before marraige) a sin as well?

The only difference between heterosexuality and homosexuality is the actual act of fornication, right?

[Kisha]

Originally posted by librasoul22
Ok..to expand...

Since fornication is also a sin, wouldn't that make heterosexuality (at least before marraige) a sin as well?

The only difference between heterosexuality and homosexuality is the actual act of fornication, right?

Nope. Fornication - sexual intercourse between unmarried persons. (be it same sex or opposite sex).

heterosexuality is characterized by desire for members of the opposite sex, not the actual act of intercourse.

[CrimsonTide4]

HA! You were cut off!

[Kisha]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
This commentary has to be taking this turn because you are women. Your moral equivalency, while laudable in its secular humanism, is the voice of apostate religion. You, me , we, cannot change BIBLICAL DOCTRINE to suit our PERSONAL TASTES or the IMMORALITY of this laissez faire WORLD. For someone to state that an ABOMINATION is not a sin is a trick of the DEVIL. ABOMINATION is the greatest level of sin and is not to be tolerated. The MOSAIC penalty for ABOMINATIONS was death by STONING. There is no room for moral equivalency here.

KISHA: I don’t believe anyone said that homosexuality wasn’t a sin.

Sexual intimacy between a man and a woman is the natural order of GOD and cannot be duplicated between same sex, with animals, or inanimate objects. That is why God calls it an ABOMINATION and DETESTABLE. Now that may not be to today's society's liking, but that is the WORD OF GOD. Who are any of us to change it.

KISHA: I totally concur with you here.

To argue that there are other sinners in the church is a specious argument. Of course, all men are born in sin and remain so til death, but a Church is not serving its purpose as a HOUSE of GOD if it blatantly promtes SIN. Having an active, gay couple so prominent as members means that your message is fruitless. If there is no way to overcome the sin of Homosexuality and such ABOMINATIONS are CELEBRATED and ADVERTISED, why should anyone in there conform to ANY sound BIBLICAL DOCTRINE? If it feels good do it. It is a very feeble argument to base the strength of your position on the fact that "other people sin". So what!!! Does that excuse yours? Does that minimize yours? Or does it just salve your conscience and allows you to continue in sin knowing that you don't "judge" others....because of course we know that when we judge others, we judge ourselves.

KISHA: I have to disagree with you here. I don’t have much time, but I will say. Christ hates the sin and loves the sinner. We all sin and fall short be it fornication, homosexuality, lying, stealing, etc. That’s why we are saved by grace. I don’t think that a church is promoting sin if it baptizes a homosexual. That’s like saying the church is promoting murders if a murderer is baptized. Our business is to be about Kingdom business, winning souls to Christ. It is through Christ and the applied word of God that leads to life change. Our responsibility is to share the good news of Jesus, it is up to the individual to decide whether or not they are going to follow God’s ways or not. I’m not making light of the sin. However, sinners need Jesus too!

I'll be the first to admit that I'm a fornicator, and if I burn in hell, it will be because I earned it, but I damn sure won't absolve mine or anyone elses sins to minimize my own. The WORD says what it says and it is not to be changed to suit man's conscience. It may FEEL GOOD to be welcoming and tolerant, but it is WRONG to

~put italics to clarify your words from Doggy, esp. on that last part**

[NinjaPoodle]

Well, I guess I'm in the minority on this one.

Here we go...

1. "The Bible says this" "The bible says that". (More than one person has used this quote so I'm not going to direct quote anyone.) Sorry, I can't base my beliefs on a book that was written by MAN and his personal opinion. (not an objective opinion either) It's Mans INTEREPTATION of Gods word.

2. "God says..." Really? Did God come down and SAY SO? Remember, MAN wrote the book, not GOD

3. Church/Religion--Man's rules suited to fit his needs. Sorry, dont buy that one either.

These are my PERSONAL opinions as I have gathered over the years. Yes, i did go to church, Methodist and Catholic. I also took the time to learn about other world religions. While I respect the need for humankind to have a belief in something greater than them/us (diety or higer being, etc..), I cannot respect ANY institution that tries to dictate how a person is supposed to live and tell them WHAT to believe. Sorry, I don't listen to hypocrytes. (sp?)

From the above mentioned website:
"Drug taking, previously confined largely to ghettos, became part of middle-class life." Oh, so only people in ghettos (all types) are SUPPOSED to use drugs, etc..?Please.

As far as people being GAY, SO WHAT? Trying to make a person feel like they are the heathen of the world because of a sexual preference? B.S. WE ALL KNOW being gay does not make them less of a HUMAN. What makes a person less than human is when they kill an innocent child or a woman carrying an unborn child, beat on an elderly person, steal, and do things to intentionally HURT people, emotional or physical.

No, I'm not gay. I just RESPECT the right of others to do as they please as long as it is CONSENTUAL. (adults) What they do in PRIVACY has absolutly NOTHING to do with me or my life.

Whew..what a load to take off my shoulders. Venting is a good thing.

Adding:
So, I say good for that church. I think that is TRUE BROTHERHOOD. Accepting people for who they are and not trying to make them change to suit the needs of someone else.