IFC/Penhellenic

[apacheksc21]

Our school, Keene State College, adopted these pain in the ass groups' rules about two years ago and since then the school has been using them to attempt to phase us out. They made the partys BYOB and now kids go to house partys instead because the serve beer. Has this sort of thing happened to anybody else. This has hurt all the chapters on campus because partys are how people actually get to know the brothers, not rushes. Please respond with any info or opinions

Ben
Sigma Lambda Chi

[kddani]

ummmm... i'm not even sure where to begin with this one.

1) The majority of us on here are from IFC/Panhellenic groups. So you may want to be a little politer in what you say about those groups

2) Do you think these rules were created for no reason? Do you know that you may be personally liable if something were to happen at one of your parties? Both the group as a whole and you and every other brother individually could be sued and/or criminally charged. seriously, think about that. It has happened. Refer to some other threads on this board.

2b) along the same lines, the university could also be held liable, and they're helping to cover their butts. People sue for anything and everything anymore. You don't believe me? Come take a look at my first year law school torts textbook.

3) Underage drinking is ILLEGAL. Yeah we all do it, etc. etc. I certainly did. But you're running a huge risk. It's kind of pointless to whine about not being allowed to do something that's illegal to begin with.

4) Do you have actual evidence that your school is trying to phase out locals? Or are you just assuming. If all you care about is partying, I can't say that I blame them. A lot of schools are actually turning a lot of their locals into nationals because of more structure, supervision, and regulations.

5) I'm getting the vibe that the biggest thing pissing you off here is the alcohol rules. You know, there are many other purposes to a fraternity than drinking.
6) And as much of a "pain in the ass" as it may be to you that your school has adopted IFC/Panhel rules, I'm sure there are many many reasons for it. I really doubt that the officials said, hey, let's screw sigma lambda chi.

I know it might be difficult, but take a step back and look at it from the many other points of view.

[apacheksc21]

They are not trying to phase out locals. We were national and we broke away from ZBT because we paid $400 and saw about $20. They did nothing for us. They are trying to phase out greeks entirely. TKE and Kappa Delta Phi have already died in the last two year. Both are national.
If someone falls in your house and breaks a leg, for instance, whether you served them or not, they can still sue. IFC really isn't helping with that now are they. I've been trying to figure out what IFC actually does other than impose rules like a national.

Ben
Sigma Lambda Chi

[gphiangel624]

Kddani- I don't think any of us could have said it better... you are so right!

[apacheksc21]

no she's wrong
But keep placing your faith in large pointless governing bodies and it'll all be ok right?!?
Sorry, no trying to be rude. I was looking for some real advice, not the you could be sued horseshit.

[Optimist Prime]

But IFC rules are a pain in the ass.

[apacheksc21]

See Theta Chi gets it. Why does anybody bother with IFC?

[kddani]

i do suggest you learn some manners, apacheksc21

Maybe you should take the time to better educate yourself about them... visit the website, talk to the greek advisors about why they chose to do this, etc. If you don't like something or the way something's going, then get off your butt and work to change it!

You have a much much higher liability if someone dies of alcohol poisoning in your house than if they break a leg.

You definately ignored some of my other points, especially the fact that underage drinking is illegal.

Anyway, good luck to you, but you may get a better response from people if you're a little more polite and less confrontational.

Rules are a pain in the ass, but guess what, life is full of rules. You're an adult now, and if you want to survive in life, you've gotta play by the roles.

Also, Optimist Prime seems to like saying things to stir things up a bit. Always keeps things interesting

[violets]

apacheksc21
You ARE getting excellent advice from Kddani who GENEROUSLY answered your post in a well written, clear manner. As for calling being sued "horseshit" did you know that your furture wages can be garnished if something terrible happens at a party that you throw, and that's just one example of what can happen.

How do you want us to answer this? With ways you can "get around" IFC/Panhellenic policies? I don't you'll get too much assistance with that.

[sororitygirl2]

Rules usually aren't fun but they exist for a reason.

Apacheksc21, these rules should not cause your Greek system to die. If your system follows them it will become a more cohesive, stable group and should eventually grow. After all, every huge greek system (like Miami at Ohio, U of I Urbana-Champaigne, anywhere in the South) has IFC and Panhellenic and it is not causing their systems to be "phased out."

[apacheksc21]

Yeah, sorry. I was insuted with the suing crap. The parties still happen, just now anyone can bring whatever they want to drink. Yes underage drinking is illegal, but find me one chapter at any school that doesn't do it. Better yet find me one student.
My point is that IFC inforces rules that only make parties more dangerous(here at least). When I was first here(I'm in grad school now) it was $5 for a cup and the brothers behind the bar seved you until you either went home or you were cut off and escorted home because you'd had your fill in their eyes. The new IFC way only eliminates the house's ability to monitor what and how much people are drinking. Sorry for being a dick, this topic always fires me up.

Ben

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by apacheksc21
If someone falls in your house and breaks a leg, for instance, whether you served them or not, they can still sue. IFC really isn't helping with that now are they.

Well, yeah they are. Yes, if someone falls in your house and breaks a leg, he or she may be able to sue successfully -- depends on numerous factors -- but presumably your insurance will cover the bill. If, however, the person fell because your chapter had been serving him or her alcohol, it very well may not be covered by insurance, leaving the chapter and its members to foot the bill. If the person is underage and your chapter served them, then you can be pretty sure you're going to be holding the bill, and you may be facing criminal charges. And in many states, if your chapter served them alcohol , whether underage or not, and they have an accident driving home, your chapter can be sued. So yeah, IFC is helping with that by trying to make sure your chapter doesn't get stuck holding the bill, not to mention doing something illegal.

Like KDDani (and Optimist Prime) said, rules can be a real pain. But rules like this can be less painful than financial ruin because of one lawsuit.

Edited to add a response to your most recent post:

I hear what you are saying about the parties being harder to moniter because of how the rule is set up and enforced. The answer, it seems to me, is not in going back to the old way, but to get with at least one or two other IFC groups and come up with a new rule that works for everybody. That strategy might help your pr with the school.

[apacheksc21]

It caused the death of two national fraternities. ONe being TKE which is HUGE. It has not made anyting stronger. It has just led to more hidden crap which is worse. Phi Mu Delta had a party during orientation week to attract new members, which is illegal. Since beer is now illegal to distribut, they went with nitrice(sp) because it was easier to hide. Good work IF! Nitrice(sp) is much better than bud light.

[kddani]

guess what, that "suing crap" is reality. Everyone says it won't happen to them, but it does.

I never said that people didn't drink. I explicitly said in my post that they do. And I can find MANY people who don't drink. There are a lot of people out there who don't.

IFC's concern isn't house parties. That's the job for the university, the police force, and whatever government entity has jurisdiction over to worry about. IF you actually follow the national policy of having a 3rd party vendor, they're usually professionals at cutting people off, etc.

Thank you mysticcat81, btw.

Also, the "death" of two national fraternities isn't exactly cause by this. Those groups have always had to follow those rules. And if they don't, their national's has no problems yanking their charter. This happens to every single group out there. My national sorority closed 3 different chapters this year for not following the rules. This happens on campuses all over the place.

I have no idea what you're talking about with "nitrice"?

[apacheksc21]

I'm sure I'm spelling it wrong. It's laughing gas. They sell it in balloons at some concerts. In the parking lot of course because it's illegal. It's usually close to the van selling weed and acid. That's what BYOB has led to. Everything was better in '98