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  #1  
Old 09-12-2002, 03:59 PM
Peaches-n-Cream Peaches-n-Cream is offline
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Does an elite college really pay?

Does an elite college really pay?
Harvard or Yale can cost a fortune, but the theory goes that the cost of a prestigious diploma will pay off in future earnings. Many who've studied the numbers disagree.
By Daniel Akst

The economist Alan B. Krueger teaches at Princeton University, but in his view, it’s probably not worth the money it takes to send your kid there.

Not in terms of future earnings, anyway. Krueger ignited a minor furor when he and Stacy B. Dale, a researcher at the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation, concluded in 1998 that elite colleges do not pay off in higher earnings. They only appear to do so, the researchers contended. Krueger and Dale claimed that, in most cases, the higher earnings piled up by graduates of elite schools were attributable to elite individuals, not their college education. In other words, if you’re smart enough to get into Princeton, you’re smart enough to make a lot of money wherever you go to school.

Whether or not Krueger and Dale’s research holds up -- and the jury is still out -- tuition-paying parents will want to follow the debate closely.

For years, economists have wrestled with the question of whether the hefty cost of an Ivy League or equivalent private college is worth the differential in economic terms. Will attending the elite University of Pennsylvania result in higher future earnings than attending Penn State? And will the higher earnings exceed the higher cost?

The cost of a private college education, already astronomical, is spiraling upward faster than the rate of inflation. (At least in nominal terms. When you adjust costs with financial aid and for inflation, the real costs may be falling. For more, see "The real cost of college: going down?")

A student entering the University of Pennsylvania this fall and paying list price can expect to spend about $160,000 for an undergraduate degree, including personal expenses and expected tuition increases.

At the same time, these institutions are besieged by more and more applicants. Columbia University’s Columbia College, for instance, had fewer than 6,000 applicants in 1991. For the 2001-02 academic year, the figure exceeded 14,000. (This spiraling demand may be helping to drive up fees. On the basis of supply and demand, in fact, Penn is probably underpriced.)

What’s a parent to do? Should you hand over your life savings to get your kids through a place such as Harvard, Stanford or Yale? Is it worth it for students to drive themselves mercilessly just to get into one of these schools?

For some occupations, Harvard doesn't pay
Unfortunately, the answer isn’t so clear. If your kid is going to be a social worker or a minister, going to Harvard will probably never pay off financially. And if you live someplace with a truly great state university (the universities of California, Michigan, Wisconsin and Virginia are good examples), only the very best private colleges are even worth considering as an alternative. Mediocre private schools, on the other hand, are almost never worth the money.

Beyond this there is confusion. Plenty of experts, for instance, think Krueger and Dale are flat-out wrong. "Alan is a former student of mine, and I love him,” says Ronald G. Ehrenberg, director of the Cornell Higher Education Research Institute in Ithaca, N.Y. Nevertheless, Ehrenberg insists, "on average, there is significant gain in going to a top private school,” both in access to better graduate schools and in higher lifelong earnings.

Ehrenberg, along with Dominic J. Brewer and Eric Eide of the Rand Corp., published a study of this issue in 1996 and found that, "even after controlling for selection effects, there is strong evidence of significant economic return to attending an elite private institution, and some evidence that this premium has increased over time.”

The problem is those "selection effects,” meaning the tendency of top schools to admit the best and the brightest, who are most likely to earn big bucks someday anyway. There is no disputing that graduates of top schools make more money than graduates of, say, Slippery Rock University in Pennsylvania, which is one reason parents are willing to pay the tab at such pricey institutions as Cal Tech or Wellesley. Harvard economist Caroline Hoxby figures that men who entered a top-tier private college in 1982 will earn $2.9 million over a lifetime, versus $2.4 million for men who went to one of the most selective public institutions and $1.7 million for men from one of the least-selective public institutions. (All of Hoxby’s numbers are in 1997 dollars.)

Where you apply is a good predictor of future earnings
But elite colleges attract elite students -- students who might have made a lot of money after attending any old college. (As well as a few possibly undeserving sons and daughters of well-heeled alumni.)

To address this, Krueger and Dale looked not just at the earnings of elite-college graduates, but also at the earnings of those accepted at elite colleges who chose to attend a less-selective institution. The researchers found that both groups of students earned about the same. That suggests that the students themselves -- not the school -- account for the difference. To Krueger and Dale, where you applied (rather than where you matriculated) is the best predictor of future earnings.

One difficulty with much of this work is that you have to wait quite awhile for the students to establish postgraduate earnings patterns. That, in turn, means you have to deal with college costs long ago dwarfed by years of increases that have far outstripped inflation. When I enrolled at Penn, in 1974, you could get through four years for perhaps $30,000. Today it takes five times as much. So if you’re paying full freight at Penn today, it’s much tougher to earn out the staggering capital cost of your elite education -- to say nothing of graduate school, which you’ll probably need if you’re serious about making money.

Dan A. Black, an economist at Syracuse University who has studied such questions, says you will make more by attending an elite college, "but it comes out awfully close to what you’d get in the stock market" if you invested the difference in price between a top college and a lesser state school.

But Hoxby, who specializes in the economics of education, has come up with some different answers. She figures student aptitude accounts for somewhere between two-thirds and three-quarters of the earnings difference; yet even allowing for this, she finds that it pays to go to the most selective college you can. "People who invest in education at a more selective college generally earn back their investment several times over during their careers,” Hoxby writes in a study of men who entered college in 1960, 1972 and 1982. She also projected findings based on 1997-98 tuition, with similar results.

"In many cases,” she adds, "even students who are offered a ‘free ride’ by a lower ranked college would maximize their monetary worth by refusing the aid and attending the higher ranked college.”

What’s more, she says, "the returns to attending a more selective college have been rising over time,” and that the career-long income differences "swamp the differences in the total costs of attending more versus less selective colleges.”

The list price vs. what we actually pay
One virtue of Hoxby’s work is her focus on what people really pay. Everyone knows the retail price of Penn is out of sight. But not everyone knows that three-quarters of its undergraduates get some kind of financial aid and nearly half get an outright grant (read: discount). At Penn, for example, undergraduate tuition and fees this fall are $27,988. But the university says the average undergraduate pays just $21,095 -- a discount of 25%. And that figure only takes account of scholarships from Penn or governmental sources. If you add in private grants and the value of low-interest loans, the average price would drop even further.

Hoxby understands this, which is why she compared students paying average 1997-98 tuition at a third-rank public college to those paying average tuition at a first-rank private college. Even adjusting for differences in student aptitude, the private school student would be expected to earn back the difference in costs more than 30 times over during the course of a working lifetime, far outstripping any possible investment returns on invested capital.

If that's true, it’s no wonder parents are clamoring to throw money at Ivy League schools. The wonder is that the schools themselves don’t charge more.

What you should do
Take all this data with a grain of salt and apply common sense.

If your kid intends to become a social worker or minister, an Ivy League education will never pay off in financial terms. And if your child wants to study studio art but is admitted to Cal Tech, there’s no point paying for Cal Tech. Spend the money on a school with a better art program.

If you live in a state with a premiere public institution -- a school such as UC Berkeley, University of Virginia or University of Wisconsin -- it’s hard to justify going elsewhere, unless elsewhere is one of the very best private schools. Even then, in the view of Dan Black, you should pick your state school.

Under no circumstances should you pay for a mediocre private school. These make no sense at all.

If you are made of money, send your kid to the most selective school you possibly can. It can’t hurt.

If you are African-American and your kid gets into Yale, do whatever you can to send him or her. Krueger and Dale found that black students get a bigger financial bang from a top-tier school. There is also some evidence that the same applies to students from economically disadvantaged backgrounds generally.


http://moneycentral.msn.com/articles...pecial=college
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2002, 04:10 PM
FuzzieAlum FuzzieAlum is offline
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A lot of this makes a lot of sense, but it hardly makes sense to pick a school based on ROI alone. For example, if ROI suggests you should go to a large state school, but you're a shy kid who would feel overwhelmed and possibly drop out at Massive U, it just isn't a good choice. People attend religious institutions and HBCUs for reasons that have little to do with cost-effectiveness.

Mediocre private schools may not be a good monetary investment, but if the kids going to them all went elsewhere, not only would those schools be out of business, but other schools couldn't absorb them all. And the fact is, what about less than stellar students? If you can't get into Harvard or Big Quality State U, does that leave as your only option Regional State U? Too bad for you that your regional state college has no Greek orgs or campus life - and that you've been dying to get away from your parents.

The original study addresses a valid point (is expensive education worth it from a ROI standpoint), but the article makes it sound as if that's the only reason we pick a school. Heck, in terms of ROI, I would have been better off skipping college and getting my cousin to get me a job as a longshoreman - or at least not majoring in English!
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  #3  
Old 09-12-2002, 04:58 PM
Eupolis Eupolis is offline
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Great points, FuzzieAlum.

I could have gone to University of Wisconsin at Madison. It would have been very inexpensive for me, and it has a good reputation -- but I would have been completely lost in that environment, even though Madison had been home for me for the six years before college.

For someone in my situation, it was very fortunate that I was able to consider looking at the smaller private schools. I found a place that challenged me me intellectually (I probably had more opportunities for intellectual growth, since classes were usually discussions taught directly by the professor, and my average class size was about 12-15 students), and where I could more easily get to know people and participate in things happening on campus.

Yeah, that kind of environment has its "down sides," too, but I chose somewhere that had the right balance of personality for me at that time in my life.
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  #4  
Old 09-12-2002, 05:09 PM
KappaKittyCat KappaKittyCat is offline
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I feel the need to weigh in here on behalf of "mediocre private schools" everywhere. I do not know what constitutes a mediocre private school in the minds of Messrs Krueger and Dale, but according to them I should not be "wasting my money" attending the school that I do.

I am from Madison, Wisconsin, one of the cities specifically cited in the article as having a top-ranked state school. This is true, and no one disputes it. It is also true that I was offered scholarships to attend Madison, but I turned them down to attend Lawrence University, a small, private, liberal arts school. Why did I do this?

1. UW-Madison is HUGE. 40,000 students, to be precise. I grew up in a small, suburbian school district with an excellent student-to-faculty ratio. I thrived in the one-on-one attention I got in such an environment. It helped me to excell. I did not want to be lost in the crowd at a huge school where, as one of my Badger friends puts it, "You need binoculars to see your professor and an interpreter to understand your TA." I've never encountered a TA, but I have had dinner at my professors' houses, babysat their children, and gone for coffee with them after class. My school's average class size is 15, a number which is shrinking for me as I advance in my major. Last term I had a class with three other people, which was team-taught by two professors. You can't beat that student-to-faculty ratio.

2. UW-Madison is in MADISON. Hello? I grew up there! Even if I lived in the dorms, I wanted to get away. I felt it important to move a distance from home and strike out my independence in an unfamiliar city. Go to a different state school? No way. Madison is the top-ranked Big 10 school. That ranking does not spread to any of the branch campuses. Though I'm sure they are also quality institutions of higher learning, it is rather a common sentiment that one only goes to another UW if one didn't have the grades to get into Madison (I'm not saying it's true, but that it's widely thought). Besides, the large majority of my graduating class went to Madison or one of the other UWs.

3. I don't qualify for need-based financial aid. The sum total of my merit-based scholarship offerings were $1500. Why? Most state schools' scholarship offerings are blended need- and merit-based. I do not qualify for them. This means that I would be paying close to full tuition at Madison, as well as room and board, because I was surely not going to live at home. However, I won a purely merit-based scholarship for half of my Lawrence tuition, the highest academic scholarship available. Factoring in room and board, it is only slightly more expensive for me to attend Lawrence than it would have been for me to attend Madison. Another state school? Out-of-state tuition for a state school is the equivalent to tuition at a private school. Granted, Wisconsin and Minnesota do have a reciprocity arrangement (we may attend each others' schools for in-state tuition). So why not U of MN (I'm counting that as part of the UW system because it's affectionately known around here as UW-Twin Cities)? See #1 and #2. If I had qualified for need-based financial aid, Lawrence would have taken care of that just as well as any state school.

4. Lawrence has a Conservatory of Music and the best music education program in the Midwest. I can get a Bachelors of Music at Lawrence, where I could only get a Bachelors of Arts in music at Madison. Lawrence has a broad array of voice faculty with whom I may study. Madison has two, one of whom told me that I was horrible and talentless when I worked with her in a masterclass. However, I passed an audition for admission to this Conservatory of Music, where I would receive a more specialized and demanding degree than at Madison, where I was merely accepted into a program. That does not compute.

5. Lawrence is consistantly one of the top-ranked liberal arts schools in the nation. The liberal arts philosophy was something dear to my heart and had a huge role in my decision making. That is, in fact, why I chose Lawrence over another big-name music school, Carnegie Mellon University. After hearing about how minimum GPA and test scores are "flexible" for prospective Tartan music students, I felt that my academic aptitude would go to waste there. Besides, I really didn't feel like traipsing halfway across the country to go to any school, whether CMU or an Ivy.

6. I did not choose my university for the name on my degree. Most people have never heard of Lawrence. Those who have confuse it with St. Lawrence (upstate New York, home of Kappa's Beta Beta chapter), Sarah Lawrence, or some school in Lawrence, Kansas. I chose my university for the same reason that I chose my sorority: it felt right. I knew from the moment I walked on campus that it was the place for me to live the next five years. I met the faculty and they genuinely cared about me. And I can safely say that I am earning the best education that I can possibly receive. When I was choosing colleges, the advice that I received time and again from a wide variety of professional adult friends (doctors, lawyers, etc.) was, "Choose your undergrad school for the feel of it. Don't worry about the name on your degree. If you're going into a field where people actually care about your alma mater, they're going to look at where you went to grad school, not where you did your undergrad."
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  #5  
Old 09-12-2002, 05:31 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cream

If you are African-American and your kid gets into Yale, do whatever you can to send him or her. Krueger and Dale found that black students get a bigger financial bang from a top-tier school.
That's if you qualify for financial aid--which, at a lot of schools, isn't easy since it's based on parental income and assets (including additional homes and retirement funds, which really sucks). Everyone assumed that I would get a "free ride anywhere" I wanted to go--partially out of misconceptions about AA, partially because they didn't understand how much the schools I wanted to attend were.

I am a firm believer in that it DOES matter where you went to school, if even just for your first job and graduate school admissions. I have had so many more opportunities and interactions with world-class faculty at my university than I can begin to imagine at my state university--even with a full academic scholarship (merit-based). I have been able to do things that my friends who did go to those schools weren't able to do without a lot of pre-planning. I--and my parents--would fork over the astronomical sums all over again for my college. It was definitely worth it.
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2002, 05:39 PM
Peaches-n-Cream Peaches-n-Cream is offline
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I thought that it was an interesting article. If you find a school that is right for your major, career goals, family, finances, etc., then it is the right school for you.

I was admitted to a small private school with a nice reputation, but not Ivy League. Unfortunately, there was no financial aid which I needed so I went to a state school. It was bigger than the private college, about one quarter of the size of Madison. I think that all things being equal without a doubt, I would have gone to the private school. Unfortunately, all things are never equal. If you are happy where you are, then it is the right college for you.
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