three times a fool

OnePlus69Is70 · #1 04-29-2002, 06:21 PM

Ugh. I just feel the need to vent for a moment. My local has tried to go national three times in two years, and every time we've been humiliated (most recently last week). The first one pledged us, then ran off when we ran into trouble (and kept the pledge fees, btw). The second and third ones both tried to recruit our pledges, and one managed to steal a few to start its own colony. I have found national fraternity executive offices to be nothing but duplicitious and underhanded liars. Their undergrads can be good, hardworking students, the salt of the earth, but at the top we've found them to be rotten to the core, three times out of three.

I'm sure nationals can't treat their existing chapters as we were treated, because they wouldn't exist, but we've found going national to be a joke on us.

Thank you all for putting up with me. I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

AOX81 · #2 05-03-2002, 11:16 AM

Either (A) you haven't found the right national yet or (B) you should focus on developing your local fraternity.

I feel bad that you had such a bad experience. Just remember a few bad apples don't taint the whole barrel.

Are you guys dead-set on affiliating with a national fraternity? If not, why don't you work on building up your house and then work into expanding at other schools!

Keep your heads high. Let me know how things turn out.

AchtungBaby80 · #3 05-03-2002, 11:59 AM

Did the nationals give any reason as to why they changed their minds?

FuzzieAlum · #4 05-03-2002, 12:13 PM

You say you "ran into trouble" without explaining what that is - depending on what the trouble was, they might have had a very good reason for getting out!

Regardless, I've never heard of a spell of bad luck like yours. Rest assured this is not normal. And maybe it suggests that now isn't the time for going national.

And, according to NPC rules, women in locals are welcome to pledge any NPC chapter. So they were legal to steal your members, although it naturally doesn't build good will.

BearyCuteAPhi · #5 05-03-2002, 01:51 PM

I am so sorry to hear that. I wish you the best of luck in what ever you decide to do. And remember......
DON'T WORRY, BE HAPPY!!!!!

Ronnie

OnePlus69Is70 · #6 05-03-2002, 06:18 PM

mmm, OK, first, just for reference, we're a men's fraternity, not a women's. The sexlessness of the Internet has its downside sometimes.

The problems we ran into with the first group we tried were recruitment related. We were the only men's group without a house, and it was very hard to differentiate ourselves. Honestly, I think their decision to drop was very premature- it's taken us a year to establish a reputation on campus, find housing, and all that, and we're now beginning to pick up steam. But they were primarily a West-coast fraternity, and used to schools with 150-man chapters. The biggest here is 50, and they're almost too big to be manageable.

On the stealing our pledges, it may be legal, but it isn't cricket. I've had men pledge us after they had depledged another house, but it's always been their decision, without our telling them to do it. I am horrified at the idea of taking someone else's pledge aside and telling them they belonged in my house- I'd throttle any of my brothers if they tried it. Maybe it's just the culture I live in- there are so few men rushing these days, that to do something underhanded like this would be unforgiveable.

We are happy being local, at least. We've got our new house to clean, and fall rush to plan, and a dozen other things going on. We're very happy with the way things are. But there are other things you miss out on without a national- no brothers at other schools, no help or advice when you're in trouble, and especially, no insurance. If you really want to lose some sleep, try being in a GLO with no liability insurance. But we're generally happy, and I know I'll be happy to stay local the rest of my time here.

FuzzieAlum · #7 05-03-2002, 07:04 PM

Quote:

mmm, OK, first, just for reference, we're a men's fraternity, not a women's. The sexlessness of the Internet has its downside sometimes.

Whoops, sorry about that! I just assumed!

It sounds like the first fraternity, at least, was not the right fit. They should not have picked you if you weren't their sort of chapter on their sort of campus. (And not to sound mean, but perhaps you should have looked for a better fit, too. But that's hindsight being 20/20, so it's easy for me to say. I wasn't in your shoes.)

I totally agree that pledge stealing isn't fair - when I heard that NPC colonies could steal local initiated members, I was a little appalled. And I would personally have a low opinion of someone who was initiated and LEFT their local to join a national. But I assume if it's legal for us, it probably is for NIC, too. That said, too, I would have a low opinion of a national that actively tried to steal members; if they merely accepted a defector, that might be different.

Look on the bright side: You're probably better off without that national, at least! And you are managing to grow and prosper even under difficult conditions.

33girl · #8 05-04-2002, 11:32 AM

I don't know who you tried to affiliate with, but it sounds like if you guys ever do go national, you would be better off with some of the smaller, northeast-based fraternities instead of the "big guns." I might have some ideas, so PM me if you want.

chscrew144 · #9 05-05-2002, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OnePlus69Is70
Ugh. I just feel the need to vent for a moment. My local has tried to go national three times in two years, and every time we've been humiliated (most recently last week). The first one pledged us, then ran off when we ran into trouble (and kept the pledge fees, btw). The second and third ones both tried to recruit our pledges, and one managed to steal a few to start its own colony. I have found national fraternity executive offices to be nothing but duplicitious and underhanded liars. Their undergrads can be good, hardworking students, the salt of the earth, but at the top we've found them to be rotten to the core, three times out of three.

I'm sure nationals can't treat their existing chapters as we were treated, because they wouldn't exist, but we've found going national to be a joke on us.

Thank you all for putting up with me. I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

why not read my thread n this and post your replies!

chscrew144 · #10 05-05-2002, 01:21 AM

"mmm, OK, first, just for reference, we're a men's fraternity, not a women's. The sexlessness of the Internet has its downside sometimes. '"

I've always wondered how you can have a women's fraternity. wouldn't it be a sorority? After all, fraternity means brotherhood (liberty, fraternity (brotherhood) and equality...) so how can there be a women's fraternity?

dekeguy · #11 06-30-2002, 12:39 AM

Oneplus69is70,

A query please, are you a Brit? Your terminology and construction suggest that you might be a native English speaker rather than a native American-language speaker. When I was doing my MA in England I found out just how different our commom language could be.
Sorry that you had three unpleasant experiences with Nationals. There are many good and honorable orgs that you might consider, as I gather you are convinced that national affiliation is your goal. Why not check the National home pages of the various orgs and see which ones seem compatible to your group and which ones suggest that they are actively expanding(usually spotted by a link to National for new colony info).
By the way, you mentioned something as not being cricket. If I mentioned that when my Dad goes to Lord's he wears a spectacularly ugly tomato and gold tie, would that mean anything to you?

OnePlus69Is70 · #12 06-30-2002, 01:22 AM

No, I'm not English, I'm American, but I'm from south-eastern Massachusetts. I'm told we preserve a lot of unusual turns of phrase and a weird pronunciation- my town was settled in 1659 by immigrants from Dorsetshire, and half the current residents are at least partially descended from those people, so it makes sense. I say cahn't, shahn't, bahth, I call soda tonic, jeans slacks, and milkshakes cabinets, I go 'down' to everywhere (down town, down Cape, down state, etc.), but never up anywhere.

I also know I make use of a number of modern British expressions ('knock me up', for instance) because one of my best friends is from Bristol. I do understand the reference to Lord's Cricket Ground, although the colors mystify me- I've never been a fan, I'm told it's something you have to develop a taste for.

I believe we've given up on national affiliation. The only benefits are better insurance and possibly help with housing, and they're outweighed by loss of independence, and the general annoyance of the whole thing. Simply not worth the bother.

dekeguy · #13 06-30-2002, 01:57 AM

OnePlus69is70,
You forgot "throtle" as in what you would do...

Yes, I see what you mean about preserving traditional Brit usage. Sorry to hear that your fraternity has given up on affiliating with a national. Have you considered insurance via a policy issued to your house corporation? Might not be as expensive as one would think. If you do not have a house yet you might be able to get an organizational umbrella liability policy like some clubs and business organizations have. There has to be a creative thinking insurance agency near you.

The tie colours are the Marylebone Cricket Club which is based at Lord's.

Sorry I mistook you for a Brit. Thought you might have been an international student and wanted to see if that connection might have opened some interesting possibilities.

Good luck with your local. If I run across any info that might be useful to you I'll pass it along.
Best regards and (inter)fraternal greetings.

cmichelle · #14 08-08-2002, 01:36 AM

I'm sorry your group has had such bad experiences. I'm part of a group that is working on starting a new local with the intent of going national. Would you mind telling me which ones you had such a hard time with? If you want to email me so you don't have to put the names up here, my email is zoeluce@hotmail.com. I hope you guys have better luck next year!