Abortion and Mens Rights

[Professor]

Did anyone catch the story on Russ Parr this morning regarding the man that sued his ex-girlfriend. The ex-girlfriend is pregnant and planned to have an abortion. The guy asked the court for an injuction and wanted the ex-girlfried to carry the baby to term. The guy wanted the child and planned to raise the child himself. The court ruled said that this guy had no rights and dismissed the cases. The guestion this morning is should men have rights. Whats your take?

[FeeFee]

What was the analysis on the judge's ruling? What court district (State, Federal, Supreme) was the lawsuit located? I'm speculating that the judge probably stated that it was the ex-girlfriends body and the guy couldn't just make her carry the baby to term or maybe it was the fact that they were not married. I am interested in finding out the whole story though.

[Blackwatch]

My wife and I would "discuss" this point all the time while we were dating. I felt that Men had equal rights to the baby as women did. My wife felt that women had more of a say so due to the fact that women had to carry the baby and therefore it becomes an issue of what a woman wants to have done in her body (in other words "what I do wih my body is my business!!!") This is quite a complicated issue, because depends on how you percieve the baby inside the woman's body. I personnally believe that Women have the right to choose.....not to have sex if you do not want to carry a baby to full term!!!!! I understand that a pregnancy can be brutal on a woman's body, and women have the perogative to decide not to go through tha pain of childbirth, morning sickness, hormonal changes, weight gain, etc. that are associated with preganancy. This decision is made WHEN YOU DECIDE TO HAVE SEX!!!! Once you decide to have sex, then you are agreeing to accept the responsibilties that come with that decision... including the possibility of a baby, emotional and spiritual attachment, history and intimacy, etc. Sex is not casual, and when we decide to have sex, we should know that it is one of the most important decisions that we will ever make.

That woman has no right to deny that child of the possibilty of life and potentiality. If she does not want to be a part of the baby's life, then fine, but she has no right to decide that the baby cannot have life, only God rightly makes that decision. If the man wants the right to raise his child, then why deny him that right? The issue of a women's right to choose has diverted attention from the main issue in this case, the man's right to parent and the child's right to have life. The women's right to choose should end with what she does with her own body, not what she does to her child's body. Don't want to be pregnant or raise a child? Then don't have sex, period! That is a woman's (and a man's) right to choose.

To play devil's advocate, one could say that the man should have known that when he had sex with the woman that she would have wanted an abortion under whatever circumstance she wants the abortion. (My wife brings up this point). I concur that men should also know what possibilities are there after having sex. Since abortion is legal, this is a possibility. If the man wants to raise a child, make sure that the woman wants to carry a child to term and deliver a child. But the question still remains, what about the rights of the child to live and become whatever it can and will become? I know that people will talk about quality of life and the social ills that come from children not being raised in productive environments, but I still say that the answer to all of this is that if the adults do not want to deal with all of these issues, then DO NOT HAVE SEX!!! don't deny the right of a child to have a life.
Blackwatch!!!!!!

[Professor]

Intersting point Blackwatch. However, lets keep this on Mens Rights. My take is men have few choices. Women make decisions everyday to have children regardless if the man wants the child or not and are then often forced to make child support payments. On the other hand women also are judge and jury if they choose to abort. Men don't have rights. We are only sperm donors regardless of the decision to abort or keep the child. What's interesting is women who choose to give children up for adoption must have consent for the release of paternal rights but they don't hae to consent to an abortion. I really don't see the difference.

[RedefinedDiva]

Blackwatch, you are totally off base with you post. You have the RIGHT to your OPINION, however, I don't think that you can be the judge of when and/or why men and women choose to have sex. You, also, can not say that people lose the right to choose once they have sex. I may CHOOSE to have sex, but I may NOT choose to become pregnant. There is a difference.

I am not going to judge and say that it is right or wrong to have an abortion because that's another thread. However, if a woman chooses not to carry a baby to term, that's HER business. It has nothing to do with hormones, stretch marks, or other superficial things. It has to do with what she thinks is best. An abortion may be the best option for her. She may not want to raise a child in this world by herself. Men are under NO obligation to stick around. Adoption may not be an good option for her because there are millions of kids out there already that are parentless and growing up in mass group homes. Maybe she just doesn't want kids. I will stop there because I can go on and on, but I want to answer the original question.

I do not think that men should be granted rights to a child that a woman is carrying. After she has the baby, then what? Is the man going to take care of the child, provide a loving environment, raise and nurture the child? It sounds good in theory, but as little as some girls and women know about raising children, men know even LESS. If women think that it's hard to raise a child alone, what is a man going to do? Raising kids is no cakewalk.

[FeeFee]

Check out this website
www.law.com

Look under Top Headlines, then click on "Judge Rules Woman Can Have Abortion Over Ex-Boyfriend's Wishes"

BTW - The judge who handed down the ruling was a MAN.

[Professor]

Thanks for the link!

[observant1]

I agree with the points made by Blackwatch and Professor. Society is quick to state how a lot of men don't play an active role in their children's lives. Then you have those men who want to take part, but are seen as incompetent compared to women or as in this case are denied that option. They can't win either way. Men are seen as nothing more than sperm donors and financial supporters. This is not the case. They are a vital part to the emotional development of boys and girls. Therefore, I think that men should have rights.
Yes, there are many issues that come along with this, but hey that's life. I also think people need to communicate about the risks of sex before engaging in it. Most people don't think they'll get an STD or get pregnant if they use protection, but stuff happens. Addressing the "what if" scenarios beforehand, may cut back on future problems that may arise.

[tammy-]

I think that men do not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body. Once she had the child he could have sued her for child support and probably would have won. Maybe it was too emotional for her. It may not be fair but we get stuck holding the plate too many times. How many men say they will be A MAN and run.

[Professor]

The same number of women that say they are on the pill but become pregnant
How many men say they will be A MAN and run. [/B][/QUOTE]

Seriously - - - women often times shelter the responsibility but when men want the responsibility they are given the opportunity.

[TLAW]

Let's look at this from a flipped point of view.
An acquintance of mine had a child out of wedlock 4 years ago. He is married now, to a different woman, and has two "legitimate kids". His beef is that he didn't want the child, and therefore, her mother should have been willing to abort the child coz he didn't want it. Well, she wanted, and had the child, which angers him to this day.
I believe she had a right to keep it. Why? Because here is a biological truth: when you roll with a woman, you enter an unofficial contract. You just MIGHT have child. So, in my belief, if she decided to keep it, the man has to live with it.
Thus, for the same reasons, I would like to see that a man has rights in terms of keeping a child. However, I don't think this is going to be an equitable issue, since women are the ones who actually carry the child. Thus, men have to know who they sleep with. That is the only way touchy issues like this can be avoided.

[Professor]

As a man I would make the case that I may not carry a child for nine months but I certainly pay for one for 18 years.

[Swamp Thang]

If the child has 23 of the Man's chromosomes after birth, that child also has 23 of the Man's chromosomes before birth. It actually makes total common sense. No single person can create a child by themselves. The parents are equally the Man's and Woman's. So, as a Man, the child isn't yours till it comes out the womb?

legally speaking .. that answer (currently) is YES !!! The child isn't yours till it comes out the womb..

Morally and figuretively, the answer is NO.. that : ball of cells, fetus, premie is as much yours as the Woman you mated with. The grey area comes in the fact that the child is carried in the Woman's body.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally posted by Professor
[B]The guestion this morning is should men have rights. [/B

After the child is born, yes.

[RedefinedDiva]

This question is not totally on topic, but it's in the same ballpark.
For the men that believe that you should have rights to a child, what would you do in a situation where a woman has a miscarriage or has a stillborn baby? Will you assume responsibility for funeral costs? Counseling? Medical expenses? Do you feel that you would suffer the same emotional loss that a woman does?